Ohio

Frosty, dude, you're so literal. I was going for the idea of the poem, not the sculpture---how you look at something you think will last forever and how...not so much. So, MotoMike, whatcha think? Know what you're going to do with it?

I'm with Das. That's neat. You could always write up what you have here to give it a provenance and tuck it away somewhere, maybe in a waterproof container kept near wherever you put it or engraved, mounted, and set nearby. Or not. Is anyone else reminded of the Shelley poem, "Ozymandias?" (This moment of artsy pretentiousness brought to you by six of the seven liberal arts.)

I don't care what anyone says, JHCC, I think you're funny. MotoMike, there are responses above from several people regarding baja's original question, including concerns about the approach---trying to get the MIG gun into the space, how to deal with the s7 warping, etc. BigGun and Frosty also suggested a different approach using brazing that really seems do-able. A quick review of the thread gives details on both the OP and this other approach. Frosty, I use my mini-lathe with stick tools. I know a lot of people who use Powermatic wood lathes for spinning, but if I get a dedicate spinning lathe, 24" with scissor tools would be my absolute maximum.

Not a huge swing. Probably no more than 24", probably less. I do manual spinning now---I made some of tools (including the t-rest and wooden mandrels) and bought and handled some others. Not scissor tools, yet. You showed me some pix of your dad's spinning work, especially one bowl he spun on air using two different metals that is amazing.

October 12---mark the date! And get out your credit cards! My list: Drag-capable Hypertherm plasma cutter Lincoln stick welder and consumables Oxy-acetylene set up because I should have one of these already and consumables Spinning lathe---I have successfully spun an aluminum cat bowl, so I feel I am now an expert Time (If I could save time in a bottle...hahaha, Jim Croce jokes never get old) One of those hammers JLP made because it looks awesome Maria Curie is someone for biggun to aspire to be as he does his brazing experiments. Work with me, Frosty. We volunteered him for this project and I'm pretty sure we can push him into actually doing it if we present a united front. Serious now: I don't need birthday presents (<---lie) because I won't get any new tools until the shop is remodeled, which will be happening in fiscal year 2019. Then I will have a dedicated metalworking area for all my new stuff. In the meantime, I smith outside and make my own tools (badly) as I need them. I suck less at blacksmithing and welding than when I started, so that there is what we call progress. A few days ago I fabricated a crappy stand for my improvised anvil that actually works. No, I will not share a picture---it's so bad I rattlecanned it Rustoleum gray to hide my shame. And my avatar is a cat named Vogelmann. He has since gone to that great Litter Box in the Sky.

Frosty, dude, I'm a girl. With a hammer. And a lot of skill in setting things on fire. Not a fellow, at least, last time I checked, which I am not going to discuss further as this is a family-friendly sort of place. And I won't go into my neighbor's shop without him because that's like wearing someone else's underwear---just wrong. Therefore, I am committed to the nomination and election of BIGGUNDOCTOR as the Marie Curie of this endeavor while I remain a lowly member of the peanut gallery. My neighbor and I did discuss trying some test blocks as soon as he's up and about again, and I think that could be pretty fun. He has a kiln, so we don't have to commit to building one, and we have materials---and we don't have I can get from Whiteside, the scrapyard, which is like Disneyland for weirdos. P.S. My birthday is coming up and I will send you the list of acceptable gifts I'll let you buy for me. Please don't feel obligated to get me the most expensive thing---the second- or third-most expensive will be fine.

Frosty, the process you described is almost exactly what my neighbor just said when I asked him how he would do this. He said, "drown it in flux," and "I'd put the solder more toward the center," but otherwise, the process, including flipping it over to use the ASO's weight, was the same. Also, he didn't say anything about Vascowear but he did say, "I have a piece of grader blade we could use for the top plate," and I am not kidding. He also busted up his knee, so I don't see us doing this any time soon. I did offer to move all the tools in his shop over to my place while he was on the mend and he appreciated that. Told ya I had manners. Guns better hurry up and do this so I can see it.

I would never bring up your pickup truck, Frost. I have manners. It's the kiln part I'm intrigued by. Are we talking like doing the thinning and tinning, then fluxing and laying in a thin sheet of solder, and then bring up with kiln to temp to melt the solder, and then----ramping down to do some kind of heat treat? I think this sounds dang near brilliant, but I know just enough to be dangerous. I vote Guns do it and Skype it so we can all watch live and shout advice at him. "Dude, don't get burned!" "Dude, fix your butt cleavage!" You know, the usual crap you yell when you're helping. And if Guns doesn't respect our voting him into office as official kiln solder testing guy, I may have to get my blacksmith/metalworker neighbor dude to think about how to do this because if he starts doing it, he'll end up just doing it. Or more accurately, we'll end up doing it, which would be pretty neat. I'm gonna go ask my neighbor what he thinks of this idea. We wants me to build an anvil (famous last words, "It'll only take a weekend!") and he's got the gear, but he really wants to do the rails and rod style of build and I am not sure if that's the way I want to go.

Wait wait wait. BIGGUNDOCTOR, could you go over this sweat in a kiln idea for me? I'm intrigued. Srsly, would you please expand a bit more on what you're thinking? And anybody else (looking at you, Frosty), I'd love to get more about this idea.

Maybe I'm being contrarian, but I think I get what bajajoaquin is after. While yeah, he could spend is time making stuff and selling it to get a bigger/different anvil, that isn't what he wants to do. Like, maybe he makes stuff that he doesn't want to or can't sell or something. No judgment, bajajoaquin---if you want to hammer up a bunch of whatevers and hoard them in your basement, more power to you, dude. Seriously. I think you've been pretty clear about what you want to do and why, and you're looking for advice on how to do it. Does anyone have any thoughts about what he's specifically asking? Because I'd like to hear about that, too. Not that I have any plans to do what baja is planning, (well, not today, but you never know) but I always learn stuff when someone tries to work the problem within its stated scenario. And I appreciate the time and experience it takes to answer questions like this, so thank you in advance for that. Honestly, bajajoaquin, you don't want my advice on how to weld this up because my welding is laughable. In all fairness, I am getting better---I realized it the other day when I fabbed an anvil stand and I knew what to do and how I was going to do it before I started and it all workesd, which was a nice change from my usual, "I gotta go to Harbor Freight and get some more cut-off wheels and grinding disks because I welded something and it didn't quite work and when I say "quite" I mean "not at all" and I'll be back in half an hour unless I see something I can't live without, honey" situation. Someone up above analogized that you're essentially going to use your your Lincoln 180 MIG to fill the gap between the top plate and the block. The piece down the center is essentially a stand-off so you can do the fill. Hope I got that right. And what you want to know is if someone thinks, given your stated budget, tools, and time, if this will work successfully. And if not, if they have an alternative plan using those same limitations of budget, tools, and time that will give you a result that meets your needs. I'm kinda tempted, though I am ignorant, to say that if you can get the MIG gun in the space, you pre-heat and do each weld as if you're filling a gap, it would work. Maybe.

James Hookway sells the plans to his retort design, but it's not a difficult to figure out how it all works. I bought the plans because I based my design pretty much on his as shown in the photos on his website.

JHCC, that's true. Maybe the next batch will be softwoods---I can put that charcoal in a different container and compare how it works with the hardwood charcoal. Softwood is easy to find out here and I do have a lot of cedar scrap. Plus, everyone is giving away rounds from the trees they're taking down and there's usually a lot of hemlock and fir. Zrognak, the first batch of charcoal was both hard and glassy and soft and fragile. I had mixed soft and hardwood and kept most of the pieces fairly small. The second batch was all hardwood and the pieces are glassy with almost no dust. I had also put in some big pieces to see how big was too big (and now I know), and I definitely have some that didn't pyrolize completely. The half-cooked pieces are in a different stack for going back in Burnie. Or the firepit. Design-wise, I don't like the lack of seal around the lid and my last homemade clay and rockwool mix didn't work as well as I had hoped, so I'm chasing down some gasket material. Also, the rockwool works, but the insulation not covered by flashing gets very messy and is already starting to fall apart, so I may change to a different material. And emptying the container could be better. Now I just flip the entire barrel over onto a tarp to get out the charcoal, but I wonder if a trunnion would be a better method. And I'd like to do something with the heat coming out of the rocket stove. I did cut in holes in the removeable stack as an afterburner and wow, did that work. That was a clean burn. But I kept looking at all the heat being wasted and wondered if I could do something with that as well. Pre-heat steel? Melt aluminum? Boil water and make myself some coffee? But those are all refinements and not necessary, really. Burnie does what I need it to do. If I decide to make changes, they'll probably be when I re-do the whole thing and have Burnie on a trailer and stuff.

No worries, JLP, and thanks for the link.

JLP, I get it re: chasing money. I was just joshing ya. And like Lou L., I just like this hammer---how it looks (like it wants to be swung about with purpose), I like how it was made, the story you tell of making it...the whole shebang. And I'm inspired to be less sucky at the craft and aim toward making something similar, so thanks for that, too.

JHCC, I've read that about use of softwood charcoal in Japan as well. Probably because the fire burns hotter. I may have to do a softwood batch. I know cedar burns hot and fast, but there are a lot of pitch pops, which would lead to a lot of fire fleas. I usually start woodstove or forge fires with cedar scrap because it starts so quickly and I have a lot of it.

And out of the kindness of my heart, I will assist you with this problem---how's about you make the stuff and I take the money? Problem solved. I really like the look of this hammer both pre- and post-shininess. Thank you for showing it. And you're photos are great.

Irondragon, are you challenging my ability to burn a steel barrel? Because I'll totally prove you wrong. And nice quote, dude. Burnie is set up for tomorrow AM. This load is primarily big leaf maple and alder, all dried. I'm letting the clay and caulk on the lid and other openings dry tonight. I'll report back with the results. And thanks y'all for saying nice things about my writing. I do have books published, but they have no explosions and only a little fire in them, though I do have a new work soft launching later this year. Mostly I just stream my consciousness all over an IFI post and usually I only go back to take out the swear words, of which there are usually many.

Hey, Daswulf, the build is pretty easy, however...you can't really seal anything. I used a clay mix that actually worked pretty well (surprisingly) but not completely. I'm going to try a 3m fireblock caulk product rated to 1348F and a clay with rockwool mix, giving the clay some fiber to hang onto. See? Fiber is good for you. Primarily, I'd like to seal the lid to the barrel and where the stack protrudes from the lid. I don't want to weld on any more bits because the idea is that the rocket stove is the permanent part while the 55-gallon drums are consumables. I estimate I can get 5 or 6 burns before needing to replace the barrel. My neighbor estimates over 20, but we agree the barrel will have to be replaced at some point. This suggests perhaps using a different barrel or heavier steel fabricated barrel and lid, but weight is an issue. Rocket J. Stove weighs about 80lbs and is clumsy to move. The rockwool is also a little problematic in that it can't be handled easily, which is why it's wrapped in fencing. I think diamond mesh/lathe would work just as well and may let you avoid using flashing. My neighbor sort of muttered about building a box, put Burnie in it, then fill it with vermiculite, and that would solve the issue of the insulation. But that would be for a permanent install, and right now everything is moveable and I can take it apart pretty quickly if I need to. I'm thinking I may put Burnie on a small trailer I can haul out on my UTV when I need to. Either way, the insulation is a key part of the process---I think that there's so much surface area with the barrel that the heat is dissipated too quickly to sustain complete pyrolysis. Wow, that was pretty science-y this early in the morning. And I haven't even had any coffee. JME1149, 3 hour burn time, I actually timed it. I didn't weigh the feedstock or the fuel, which I probably should. In terms of estimated volume, I used about 20lbs of scrap for fuel (1 5-gallon bucket and an armful of long hardwood rips). I don't know how much feedstock went in the barrel. Afterward, I filled four 5-gallon buckets I just transferred to a new 67-gallon recycle bin I bought for this purpose. I usually spend about 3-4 hours at the forge and use 2.5-3 gallons of charcoal in the JAGOD (Just a Grill of Dirt) at that time, but I'm still working out my fire management and I think I'm being too stingy with the amount of fuel I use. The process is easy enough that you could fill Burnie the night before and then fire it up just as you're starting to forge or do something else nearby that doesn't involve juggling gasoline or other flammables. Once the pyrolization gases start cycling through, you're not doing much to help it along. We did feed fuel toward the end of the cycle to keep positive pressure inside the barrel. I think the pyro cycle was over an hour long, I think 1:15. I was timing it but I didn't write it down. The pyrolization lasted longer than I thought it would, for sure. We also had small fires on the outside of the barrel from leaks, which is why I'm looking for an easy and safe way to seal the barrel, but you could track when the pyro cycle is over because those flames die back the closer to the end you get. The big challenge is the size of the feedstock. I have to figure what is the largest size Burnie can pyrolize and what's the easiest way to get the feedstock down to a smaller size efficiently. I'd also like to try feedstock with different moisture content (greenwood as opposed to dry---my guess is that it would work, but take a lot longer) and what happens if I use other material, such as blackberry cane, as feedstock or fuel. Laugh at the blackberry cane, but it is related to bamboo and grows very thick and deadly canes. The canes have lots of thorns matched by a very bad attitude. These plants can grow into this massive thickets that could kill you and drag your body off. I'm pretty sure that's happened.

So, there was charcoal. A lot of charcoal. And the barrel was still warm when I opened it yesterday afternoon. Guess the insulation worked. I have loaded Burnie up for a second burn tomorrow and try to get some time to try the charcoal in the forge sometime this week. Maybe. I have to harvest the lavender for distilling, so I will be very busy but very calm.

To continue my adventure in Bad Blacksmithing, I need fuel. To get fuel I had to either spend money (boo) or make a charcoal retort (yay), which sounds very self-reliant-y and xxxx until you realize you actually have to do it. I looked at different designs, watched some videos, and read some stuff. I focused on James Hookway's design for a charcoal retort that sent the pyrolitic gases to feed the rocket stove used to heat the wood being turned into charcoal. I even bought his plans because honestly, he thought of some stuff I hadn't and credit where credit's due. My neighbor got very excited about this project. A little too excited. He's an ok dude, just a serious pyro. And just when the weather again got very hot, he decided I needed to start building and I was baited with free material. I believe that is against international law---just giving somebody the xxxx they need to make something they weren't going to make until it was no longer 90+ degrees. So my neighbor and I dug out some lengths of 5x7 and 6x6 1/4" tube, which he then proceeded to cut (badly) with his new plasma cutter. Then I got to use the plasma cutter and I was better at it than he was but still terrible. Later I thought there had to be some tricks or templates and sure enough, the internet showed me how to not xxxx so bad at plasma cutting. I filed that away for when I get my own plasma cutter because, dang, they are cool. xxxx xx xxxx stupid hacksaw. I welded up the firebox and we assembled the rocket stove at my neighbors. My fab partner promptly named it, "Rocket J. Stove." It's moments like this that really sustain a marriage. My neighbor then gave me a stanky 55-gallon drum, lid, and clamp. It was only after I cut out the bits I needed to cut out that I realized the stanky drum and the lid did not fit. So my neighbor gave me another stanky drum, which was kinda annoying because these drums were pretty gross and the clamp for the lid that fit this one was rusted and would not move no matter how much bad language I used. Which was a lot. I called it a day, and sprayed the nut and bolt with Deep Creep. Then I had some cocktails. I got it all sorted the next day and cut the bits I need to cut, welded on a blow-off pipe, and of course, did more grinding. Do you know how easy it is to burn through the lid of a 55-gallon drum? I do. Then came the rockwool insulation and some wire garden fence that I tightened up by using ratchet straps on the outside. And I wrapped it all in some aluminum flashing. I said it was to protect the insulation, which is true, but really I did it because it's shiny. The assembled charcoal retort is named Burnie. Burnie was all assembled and loaded up yesterday. I fired up this morning. Four minutes (I timed it) from lighting a single piece of newspaper in the rocket stove to a roar. After about an hour we had the gases from the wood being pyrolized feeding back into the firebox of the stove. It was pretty awesome because I never think anything I make is going to actually work. After 3 hours, we were done. It took about 1.5 to 2 5-gallon buckets of scrap to feed the rocket stove. We had to do some adjusting because I had forgotten to drill some holes in the removeable stack as an afterburner---whoops. I also need to get some high-temp silicone caulk to use to seal everything. I used clay (per James Hookway's instructions) but that was less than stellar. Everything worked, but we had flames sneaking out. They were pretty, but the rockwool got pretty smoked in some places and I'd like to have a cleaner burn for the sake of breathing, which I am in favor of. Burnie got very hot. My non-contact thermometers hit their max, so over 888-degrees F. My neighbor kept saying next time I should fire up Burnie at night so we could see the cone of fire coming out of the stack. He also said he wanted to take off his clothes and dance around in celebration of fire but I said that he needed to be more mindful of boundries and I'd already been struck with hysterical blindness when I saw him dancing with his clothes on just a few days ago. So anyway...for this project, I had to weld a lot, which means I had to grind a lot, which means I was taking a lot of showers because I got pretty gross. Not only did the dust get everywhere, but I was sweating like people you read about in books. I was sweating so much because I was doing most of this work in my geodesic dome. I built the dome to shelter a small lap pool. Then I realized a pool is just a big bucket of water into which you throw money. Like a boat, which is a hole in the water into which you throw money. But I got rid of the pool and started taking down the dome when I decided to build my metal-working shop next year when we completely overhaul the current shop. So while the dome doesn't have a floor anymore, it still has a roof that is great for keeping the rain off you. It's also great at trapping the heat. And it was really, really hot. I'm pretty sure under my welding helmet my face was as pink and sweaty as a canned ham. And now I'm disgusted and hungry. I'll let Burnie cool over night and pop the lid open tomorrow to see if there's any charcoal in there. I'll update soon.

I have no technical or structural opinions because I'm not qualified to make them. However, I am an expert in laying about doing nothing and I must warn you that you're making us lazy layabouts look bad. And hurting our feelings. Srsly, I've been following this build and dang, this looks pretty sweet.

Congrats on this new adventure. It looks terribly exciting, which means exciting with a streak of terror in it. Looking forward to your progress.

I'm with Frosty---Charles, you're JABOD is interesting and inspirational. It really made me re-think what I was hoping to get out of blacksmithing. I really want to make a joke here, but I'm instead going to thank you again for sharing what you're learning because I realized I was focused way too much on a London pattern anvil and propane forges and not on what I really want to do. And the experience with the JAGOD is really great. Instead of firing it up yesterday, I re-angled the tuyere to angle down a bit (thanks again, Arthur212). I'm going to try to fire it up today and see how these changes work. And I can do this because I paid attention to your JABOD example and kept my first attempt at forge building simple and adaptable. I also have an update to the mystery steel/snipe hunt. I showed my neighbor the extremely terrible taper I had drawn at the very end of the piece he'd given me and said, "Dude, this ain't mild steel." He laughed. Then he said "I thought you might finally figure out that you need to make a punch." Then I said some bad words, but I'm going on record as saying it is a great joke. First rate. I have not yet had my revenge, but he knows I will.

You're right, Arthur210, gold star for you. The tuyere was angled. I corrected when I moved the dirt around yesterday to make the fire pot smaller. I think I need to re-adjust the tuyere both in regards to keeping it level or even a bit of a downward pitch and it's height relative to the surface dirt. I'd like to see how the changes I made yesterday affects how the fire performs today, then probably I'll re-do again a few more times. And I've decided, with credit card in hand, that Goal #1 (spend no money) does not apply to material. I have access to scrap, but I think I need to use known stock now to practice on. Naturally, I haven't any right now. So today I'll probably use a piece of mild steel flat bar from the scrap pile. I've ground and welded this material before so I'm confident there will be no fume-y surprises. Fume-y surprises are like, the third-worst type of surprise. But I'll be stopping by local steel supplier later today on our way to a party, which will make me the most interesting person at the shindig. Seriously. This celebration is in honor of a professor friend who has retired and I think it may be a very bowtied sort of evening. Not that there's anything wrong with bowties. Crap. If I've insulted any bowtie people, please accept my apologies. It's just unlikely (though not impossible) that there will be people attending the party who like to play with fire and hitting things with hammers and I'm kinda into that. OTOH, if I accidentally start my bra on fire at the forge, well, then I really will be the most interesting person at the party. So, there's an upside.

Wood chipper then retort. Interesting. I can do that. Same with the hatcheting. Not a buzzbox. He has one of those. This is a MIG/TIG with a separate wirefeed. He spent $40 because he wanted the wirefeed but then he got the whole thing working. I like the flexibility of the pile o'bricks forge a lot. Maybe at some point I'll try that.