Dave Budd

That's fantastic work, I love it It's amazing what mundane objects people get asked to make in damascus sometimes. I've been asked for a pair of old fashioned secateurs (not sure if you call them that, so pruing shears?) and a friend of mine made a vegetable peeler in mascus :D

The way I teach folk to forge a blade is to copy me parrot fashion in bitesize steps: 1) point on the bar. this can be adjusted later, so even a short stout point is fine at this stage, but it is easiest to forge in now 2) flatten the bar to the thickness you want the spine to be and for the blade length plus an inch or two. 3) refine the bar and point to the preform shape you need. the correct shape comes with practice, but try forging something that looks like the knife you want only the cutting edge will be the straight side (so your knife is upside down so to speak) 4) bend the blade so that the cutting edge (straight side of forging) is on the inside of the curve. as you forge the bevels the blade will curve up to the spine and this prebend saves a lot of swearing later 5) forge the bevels in. start with a run of blows along the very edge at a 40degree angle to the anvil, then work in rows until you get to the spine or where your bevel stops. 6) chop it off the bar and forge the tang. 7) straighten, normalize, etc. I would scrap the first hammer until you are comfortable swinging it all day, but the second one (2lb?) is fine in my opinion. Move your anvil near the forge to save you getting up and wandering about (the steel cools quickly). When I use a ground level forge and anvil I kneel behind the anvil with the forge arms length away. If you can raise the anvil a little to the point that when kneeling u[right the top is at fist height then it will save a lot of troubles too. It is possible to forge a good blade as you are, but takes practice Also make sure you work on both sides of the bar equally,otherwise you will get warpage when you harden it have fun and keep trying :)

It's looking like the upsetting of the spine is the favoured idea asking about (though I'm still waiting to get it from the horse's mouth, there are a few who have made theese recently). Best options are the vise (not a big fan of that as I can see it getting cold quick and getting right on my nerves when it moves about!) or the wedge shaped slot bottom swage for supporting the blade. The only trouble I see there is the changing width/thickness of the blade from one end to the other and then the need to clean up my flats after the upsetting. Rravan, I think a set of dies like that would be very handy for tidying up especiallly if I fit them to the flypress :D

I think there is something in the water.I just had TWO seperate emails asking if I could make a pish qabz with a T backed blade! I thikn I might have to say no, not yet. Makes me wonder if it's worth giving a go sometime though Did anyone come up with a proven method of construction in the end?

Sorry Dean, i can't offer any more insight into your lovely old anvil. I actually misread the thread title. I thought you were trying to get your anvil a date! Is he a bit lonely? ;)

Brilliant, thanks for taking the challenge! I will have to try and aquire some 1" bar to do the test myself! Just checking, A36 is just plain mild steel? I generally only work with tool/spring steels, so when I buy mild I phone up and ask for the 'general cheapy mild steel please' as I don't use much of it (the last 500kg lasted me three years!). I'll get a few inches from a smith nearby I'm certainly not doing the test with a bit of 1" tool steel, it would make me look REALLY puny!

Bib type. My first was your basic grey chrome tanned welders apron from a welding suppliers, but it was quite stiff and being a small chap it was irritating around the sides and armpits. I used it for a couple of years anmd got it moulded to my form, until I burnt a hole straight through at the waist (angle grinder, didn't notice where the sparks were going until my belt buckle got hot! ) For the last couple of years my (bib again) apron is made from heavy suede I bought with a batch of leather for sheathes. It's much more supple than the normal aprons and is about the same thickness. Also available in any colour you like I based the shape on my old one, but adjusted ot to fit; now runs a little above the knees so that I don't have to lift too much when supporting things between my legs. I met a smith a few years back who forges in a leather kilt. No trousers underneath (or undies?). I don't thik I'll try it just incase there is a hot or sharp bit on the bar!

I can't see teh upsetting method being all that helpful on a blade, though I'm happy to be proved wrong. I would think a set of fulering dies and a grinder would be more logical?

I've got my cheap mild steel outside and my expensive tool steel inside. Then each type of tool steel is colour coded with electrical tape.

is that the good one from the 1970's or the sham that was put out in the 1990's?

until I read the description I thought that he had put the zeros in the wrong box and was actually aiming for $50. Good luck to him, some how I think it may remain 'unsold' :D

it is a lot easier to prebend the bar rather than try to straighten it with a lump of wood! For one thing the edge tends to fold and twist as you try to straighten it. Likewise, if you bend it too far (ie prebend too much) it is easier to stretch the edge upwards than it is to try and push the blade back down at the end. Also the thinner you forge you edge, the more relevant that point is!

I think maybe our definition of 'closed up' is different. I would say that the close up in that last picture has a hole in it When MD asked about closing the hole/tranmsition I was thinking welded socket rather than tight hole. Not that it really matters, I'm sure there were bad smiths forging the heads aswell as good smiths :D

with difficulty nah, just very carefully and my arrowhead tongs were (they broke at the weekend) quite fine on the flat side where the hammer is more likely to strike. Basically i forged teh socket very short and thing walled, then cut off on a small way into the solid before forming the point. The only grinding/filing was done to true up the end of the socket. The little ones were made for my 5/16 shafts, hence the tiny size. Obviously when I make offencive arrowheads (broadheads, bodkins, etc) they are larger, normally 1/2" war arrow shafts of the 11/32 that I use.

little bodkins! what size shaft do they fit on? they are much more fiddly to forge than a loong bodkin aren't they? I made some target points a couple of years ago. They are basically just the cone section with very little solid at the point. All forged to finished round cones. Unfortunately I can't find a picture right now (that means I have to go make some in order to have an image ) I think they weighed between 70 and 100grains. I made half a dozen and they were pretty close in weight and size, though not entirely straight. I can't say that I noticed any difference in flight due to the bentness. Mind you, My shooting isn't accurate enough to notice very subtle irregularities such as fine tip shape/weight and I was shooting primitive arrows, so the shafts may not have been completely straight either :D

:D I'm not suggesting that we ditch power hammers and go back to hand forging. just thought it would be an interesting thing to see. Good to show off to girls on courses/at shows? Obviously we all (taken from another thread) wield 25lb hammers and lift anvils like they were feathers Believe me, if I could afford a power hammer I certainly would use it. I recently acquired a flypress and I've found myself using that for some of the drawing out that I have always done by hand. any labour saving is welcome John, I'm sure we both know what would happen if we did try anything like that at a Owen's or even worse Jack's! Absoulte carnage, lots of sweat, and Mr yarrow would end up in casualty again :lol:

It would be interesting to see what the same 5 and 10 hit results are for the use of one's normal hand hammer? I doub't any of us could reduce a 1" bar to 0.3" in 5 blows, but I reckon lots could do the 0.9

I use both side and bottom blast and get on fine with either for most things. But i find working of odd shapes it is much easier on a bottom blast as there is no wall in the way!

I mostly wear the full'eye shield type googles with the rubber seal (look like diving masks made of polycarbonate) these days, especially when grinding. I used to wear spectical types until a bit of grinder grit/steel bounced off a wall and over the top of them, stuck right in my iris and had to be plucked out in the eye hospital! on a smilar note of "how did that happen?". a couple of days ago I was hot cutting the end off a bar (last inch or so), the bar was supported between my legs, chisel in left hdn and hammr in right. Everything is the right height and the metal hot, so no groin injuries but somehow the severed piece of metal came up and struck me on the outside of my right shoulder?! not sure how that happened, but I wish I had been wearing a shirt when it did

I think we've all been there the number of times I think that spending an afternoon making a tool for a particular job would save be a lot of hassel and swearing in the future. Yet I still don't do it I've got a few things on my list of "must make xxxxx to make life easier". one day.

Cheers, I like him Saxen likes to help out, but always manages to find the wrong spot to settle or stand (he's 30" to the shoulders, so standing is very much in the way!) My workshop is built on oak posts set in the ground and everything that I don't want to move (anvil posts, flypress stand, benches, etc) is built from oak and set in the ground. When he was out with me 'helping' he would either curl up on or scatter the poiles of soil as I tried to sink the posts! He's none to bright around sharps but fire is is fine with thankfully.

pay close attention to how your body feels and looks when you forge, also at how the tools and metal feel and look. That way when you achieve teh correct blow you have something to replicate. I used to do a lot of archery and there was a saying that making the perfect shot is easy, but making it consistanly is very hard to do. Same with forgin or anything else that requires accurate muscle memory. Just concentrate on feeling for the right blow. not easy to describe I'm afraid

this is Saxen. his bed is under my wood lathe, but I move it across the workshop when I need to turn something. As you can see, he doesn't really mind he doesn't even stir when I'm forging, grinding, welding, etc. But if a shotgun goes off nearby, he hides in the darkest corner cowering. :(

Yes I've made a couple, but it is definately an excercise for the sake of having a go! You can go about it two ways: conventional modern hand saw with the thin balde and set teeth. OR wedge shaped blade that has the teeth on the thick side (like a pruning saw) the first one is easiest to do if you buy thin steel and cut it to shape, then cut the teeth. But if you really want to forge it then go ahead, rather you than me Older hand saws actually change thickness across the width and length of the blade, especially the panel, rip and cross cut saws. That would be tweaked with scrapers or grinding rather than forging I would think as the variation is fracions of a mm. the second is a case of forging a long thin knife blade and then cutting the teeth on what would normally be the back. The tricky bit with this is getting everything straight and the thin edge in the centre of the saw blade. Mind you, if you are going to FORGE rather than grind a blade then this is the easier type to make I would think. cutting the teeth is not too hard. If you have ever sharpened a saw then you just do that, only with more filing! To get the teeth equidistant make a punch that has two cutters (file 3 Vs in the end of a bar and grind off all but the tips f the outside Vs). Then strike once to make a mark for your first two teeth (well the space between the teeth), then move teh punch along keeping one tooth in the previous mark. I would suggest cutting the teeth post heat treat to avoid the posibility of not getting them hard. The correct temper depends on what it is for cutting, but something in the warmer side of brown should be right. I used cs70 (plain 0.7% carbon steel) for the mini and an old coil spring for the Roman one. Don't go too high alloy or you may not get teh toughness, don't forget that the finished object will have some work hardneing applied ot the teeth during setting each time (simpler steels tolerate it better) mine so far: a roman saw and a mini based on a 50 year old diston philly rip saw: 32 tpi all hand cut and set I made it up as I went along, but for the cutting and sharpening of the teeth I found an old book on engineering and woodworking, it had good descriptions and diagrams

frame handle or morticed tang construction. works fine as long as you use good glue at least I've never had any problems with it