Mark Aspery

Doesn't Micheal Sobrado teach a night class about blacksmithing at one of the junior colleges in AZ. Hyme (Hi-me) used to teach classes around the Phoenix area. I would suggest contacting the Arizona Artist Blacksmith Assn. Doug Kluender would be a good person to contact as he is the outgoing education chair. AABA ~ THE ARIZONA ARTIST BLACKSMITH ASSOCIATION

I would use the 4140 here as well. But this time I would heat-treat it and protect the heat-treatment with frequent quenching as I work with the chisel in the hot metal.

Due to the nature of use of drifts...in that they are sometimes in the material for a protracted period of time - I don't bother with any heat treatment as I will soon loose it. I get - as Gerald states- very good access to used chrome/moly alloys of various types. I am relying on its greater toughness (not hardness) over mild steel when I choose that material for my drifts. I use chrome/moly drift in place when I spread the eye of my hammers under the power hammer (see YouTube video if you have high speed internet access - YouTube - Forging the general purpose leafing hammer)

OK - I really digging deep into the memory now! Because iron has these spare electrons whizzing around its atom it is very unstable. It wants these electrons to be attached to something. As we have a great abundance of Oxygen the iron often connects with it. The Iron when connected to the Oxygen is in a more stable state - at one with the world you might say! That is why iron rusts so readily. This is how we find iron in 'the wild' as an oxide. To make the metal iron that we use, we have to drive off the attached oxygen. But the iron is always looking at ways to get back to its 'wild' and stable state. Is this correct?

My very limited understanding is from high school chemistry. The table of electrovalancies represents 1.) the number of and 2.) the electrical charge of the free electrons orbiting the atom. So when we look at FE2 O3 (ferric oxide) we see two atoms of Iron (III) which have 3 positive electrons orbiting each - attached to three of Oxygen (which have two negative electrons each. We cannot get Fe (Iron III) O(one and a bit) as nature does not like the imbalance so that's why we need two iron to three oxygen to make a nice even match. We can get ferrous (valancy 2+ or Iron II)) to mix with oxygen forming Ferrous oxide FeO Is this correct?

I'm at a loss Al, For 1, It doesn't look like you will be able to get to tue iron down low enough into the pan. For me, the center of the air blast pipe should be about 4 inches below the top of the dirt giving you 2 inches for coke and 4 inches from the bottom of the pan. (roughly). The dirt comes up to the bottom of the side gates - or thereabouts How deep is your pan? It looks like you have a step to contend with at the back of the forge - is this correct? (Looking at your photographs) I think Richard Bent of Plymouth has a double version of this forge. Find his web site and get in touch with him - he may be able to help.

Ah, but you have to be careful there. If 'A' beats 'B' and 'B' beats 'C' you might think that 'A' would beat 'C' ....not in scissors, paper & rock,!

I just crunched some numbers using this formula. It is very close to being spot on. And if you don't have a calculator at the side of the forge, easy math. Thanks for this one. Very useful!

I don't have one from the 1800's, but it hasn't changed much. I like 'Math on call" ISBN13:978-0-669-50818-5 (Hardcover) There is a soft cover version. I find their explanations very easy to grasp. And lots of pictures-really!

I'm the same as Gerald. Not being what they call a 'gifted academic' at school, math was for the other guy. Then blacksmithing... and boy did I have to scramble to catch up. Good math skills allows me to forge with certainty. I don't have to constantly check or compare forgings. It saves me a tremendous amount of time and perhaps the better thing is that because I don't have to check or compare, it actually cuts down the number of times a piece goes into the fire. This improves my quality of work. I think an area of IFI dedicated to at least storing formulas or techniques where math or a geometric drawing is used to give a starting point to a problem (such as in tapered hoops - like rings for a barrel).

Not away, but towards!

Here is another document that focuses on the Western States Level III curriculum. PDF Attached. Again, please let me have you edits or ideas. IFI version Level III .pdf

I agree with this thread entirely. I offer a PDF that I have been working on. Please treat it as a working document with plenty of work left to do. Please let me have any edits or ideas you may have. You can e-mail directly at blacksmith@ocsnet.net Thanking you in advance. Math for the blacksmith .pdf

There is a smith out of Utah (between Salt lake and Spanish fork) that makes them. He has an automated (almost) station that he takes around to mountain man rendezvous and makes small traps. He also has on (that works) that is about 6 (SIX) feet across the jaws - by way of advertising. Eli is a name that comes to mind, but don't quote me on that. A very clever man.

One volunteer is better than 10 pressed men! I'll be there to get ice, band-aids etc. Our best men with the latest skills....you can see how this would go!

The example below uses 8-inches of 1/2-inch square bar. I like to use a pre-determined length of bar so that it can be measured again to see what happened to the stock after the corner has been made. Center punch the middle of the bar and heat about an inch or more either side of the mark. Clamp the bar in the vice with at least 1/2-inch between the side of the vice and the center-mark. The vices at the school have the edges rounded. Position a dog wrench on the other side of the mark and an equal distance away from the mark as the vice. Shown in Fig 1 Bend the bar away from you. The direction is important and will be mentioned later. Also, do not bend to 90-degrees yet. Bending to 90-degrees will cause cracking in the inside of the corner later during the upsetting process. Figures 2 and 3 show the bend and the angle. Grasp the free end of the bar with a pair of tongs and reach for a light hammer. A light hammer is used for light rapid blows. Certainly the process can be done with a heavy hammer, but the upset will be further into the bar than just the corner, something that you will have to rectify later. Start to straighten the curve of the bar on one side of the center-punch mark shown in fig 4. Do not let the centerline of your hammer migrate to the corner, in fact keep it above the inside edge of the other leg of the bar. Due to the natural arc of your hammer, material is pulled into the corner area. If you had bent the bar towards you initially, the arc of your hammer would pull the material away from the corner. Notice that the corner is not held tight up against vice as this could cause a galling of the material. Take another heat and clamp the other end in the vice to work on the second side. Unfortunately, you cannot see the center-punch mark as it is on the underside of the bar. However, you do have the flat side that you just forged as a guide. Shown in Figure 5. At this stage you should see a thickening of the stock at the corner. Go to the anvil and flatten the excess stock as shown in figure 6. Return to the vice and continue to work up the corner as before, until the corner is sharp. Only when the corner is nearly finished do you allow the corner to come to a right angle. Figures 7 and 8. The inside of the corner should be free from cracking as shown in figure 9.

Mike, That looks great - will you bring it to the Weaverville hammer-in in March? We (read you and Mike L) can demo some bear's heads and get people interested in Darryls visit in 2010. Maybe do some tool making in readiness... I'll get some 3/4 sucker rod there.

I agree - possibly a little more... although they do not want any clean up other than scale removal - and that I do in a pickle of white vinegar. I would normally weld a hinge eye as I have a trick little design that comes with it. I think I will stick with Gerald's design of a rolled eye only and cut down on the time and drawing down requirement of 1/4 inch thick (1/8 starting thickness) at the weld. Thanks for your input Jymm

I like that approach to your worn hardy hole problem.

Nope! That was it, stock requirements and time. I was unsure as to whether or not to bend the stock across its width as a start to rolling the eye for this - lighter stock. You mentioned that you do pre-bend... that's good enough for me. Thanks to all who answered the call.

Gerald, What was your starting stock and time per unit? Nice progression by the way - why not post it as a blueprint for IFI? Thanks for taking the time to do that.

Sorry, my poor English! The new (butterfly) hinges are to match a style of hinges already in the cabin (Rustic) not other butterfly hinges. (sorry for the mix-up) I'm looking for stock sizes and time. All hinges that I have made have had a larger journal/pin than what I think is required in a butterfly hinge. Do you still pre-curve the bar across its width to accommodate the turning of the eye to leave a straight walled cylinder when finished?

Hello, I have just received a telephone enquiry about making some butterfly hinges from a client. They are to match some existing hinges in a log cabin. From the conversation, it seems the hinges are to be made from barstock and not from folded/doubled sheet steel. A rough finish (yea rust) would be appreciated with a

It doesn't have a name to it. I have had it for years. It was a chain makers anvil and was a pattern particular to the area where I served my apprenticeship. I think I saw them for perhaps a 30 mile radius. I brought it over from the UK when I came over. I have since sold it and purchased a Sodafors anvil which is of a much higher quality.

You can soften it by annealing it. Heat to critical and allow to cool slowly. Then you can either forge it or work at the bench with the steel.... but tomorrow