HWooldridge

Agreed, Ten Hammers...craftsmen and quite a few athletes have motion habits while working (anybody remember the baseball pitcher, Luis Tiant, and his windup?) It's part of the rhythm and music of working at the anvil.

Try taking a piece of square, heat, then gently knock down all corners with the hammer and finally planish the flat surfaces at a red heat. When you are done, it should still be close to original size but the corners are gone and the flats have light texture. After removing the loose scale, take some 220-320 grit cloth and scrub the piece using your fingers to hold the paper (not a block). The high spots will shine and the low ones will remain dark. Makes for an interesting finish and it looks hand wrought (which it is... :wink: )

Remembered another one today: Some time ago, I engraved a 10 inch rule on the front side of the anvil in 1/2" increments. Very handy for hot work when you need a quick measurement. The lines were carefully marked with a cold chisel and the numbers stamped so it's there forever.

Are you trying to be extremely precise in the final measurement of the forged piece - i.e., do you envision a 1/2 swage to produce an exact .500 plus or minus .005? It can be done but I'm not sure you need or want that. I will describe how I make top and bottom swages for round stock to produce something pretty close to size - others will chime in. Take two blocks, clamp a business card between them and drill with the desired size (I'll use 1/2" in this example). Afterwards, the halves will be about .020 under because of the card but now you need to take a die grinder and greatly relieve the edges of the hole. If this is not done, you will get a lot of pinched material and cold shuts. Only about 20% of each side of the hole channel does the work (top and bottom) - the rest is removed. When done, the hole will be oval, maybe 3/4" wide. This will forge to a size that can be threaded with a 1/2" die. I have never needed anything closer but if you do, then I would make a set of "kiss blocks" to get to final size. These have a "U" bottom and either no top (power hammer die is the top piece) or a spring loaded flat top. You start on the large side and then grind off the 'legs' of the U until you get to the right size. The piece is rolled between the flat surfaces and "kissed" as it's turned. Square can also be done - it's a set of V-blocks and the corners need to be relieved like the round. I would do rectangles with kiss blocks. On making square into round and vice versa, I start with the next 1/8" size larger but do the calculation for a specific size if you need it exact. For example, 5/8" round is .31 in cross section, 1/2" square is .25. I hope you have a power hammer... :shock:

A tap now and again does no harm - just don't stand there whaling away with no hot metal between hammer and anvil. In addition, a bounce every 4 or 5 times is wasting a stroke and some of the heat if you are really trying move metal. I have a rhythm that hits the work every blow while a good heat exists, then I bounce the hammer sometimes when I am using finish blows. Sort of like 'thinking in motion'. If you do take up knitting, I'd like first dibs on your anvil... :wink:

The HC or WC ones are good for stamps, fullers, butchers and other set tools. Make several pair of tongs that hold the shank perpendicular and you will have easily exchanged set tool "handles".

Archie, Go to the Blueprint section - http://www.iforgeiron.com/blueprints.htm and look at B-0215. I built it out of junkyard parts.

Was working in the shop today and came up with some more: Scroll tongs - I can't live without them. Made mine from coil spring stock at least 20 years ago and they have done thousands of tasks. Rivet sets - Good support when you don't want a flat head on a factory rivet. I have a welding helper that is a piece of half inch plate, 10x6, welded to a square shank that can be clamped in a vise. It has a "dead-nuts" 90 degree corner and multiple lines scribed across the face and at common angles (30, 45, 60) so I can set up little pieces and weld them quickly. Chisel and drift sets in standard sizes - Two tools that allow splitting the stock with the proper chisel then drifting the hole to be slightly oversize when cold so a piece of hot rolled stock will pass thru. #7 Whitney punch - makes life simple when punching holes for rivets because the punches are 1/64 over nominal size.

Tell you what, Richard, Miss July was already there but she was managing another booth - ooooh my goodness...the obvious thing was that ALL the guys were stopping to talk to her, whether they had wives on their arms or not. I heard her say she was single and worked out of her house - my mind went in a thousand different directions before exploding :lol:

Thanks for all the responses. Chuck, I think you nailed something on the table settings. The walkway route I am on curves to the left and I am in the bend so anyone coming down the path gets steered away from me. The lady next to me sells tie-died shirts but she is three feet further out because of the path and lots of folks stop at her place. Funny that you mentioned the hat, I was bareheaded Saturday and wore a cap on Sunday. I'll wear my straw next month. In addition, all my stuff is flat on the table except the plant holders and fireplace tools so they have to walk up to see anything. Several of the vendors have stuff hanging on portable walls so folks see the product at 30-40 feet. I am in the process of building some displays. Glenn, I have stuff from $5 (S-hooks) up to $300 (fireplace sets). Almost everything is $50 or below. The shows I am used to are the indoor type where everyone has two tables set in a line and the aisles are 10-12 feet wide. I have several relatively unique crosses that stop people and those are always in front. This outdoor show is less organized and laid out over 2 acres so it sprawls - I need to just figure out how to stop them long enough to look.

Well, I'm going to stick it out thru the fall and see if things improve. The other vendors stay there for a reason and there is little turnover, which is the reason for the long wait to get a spot. I may raise my prices - especially for the holiday season. I've done better at other shows and this one surprised me since it was the worst 'people to money' ratio I've ever seen. Daryl, I believe those numbers because they match what I observed. For example, all vendors use 10x10 EZ-UP tents - Saturday morning, I had mine set to the lowest setting and no one stopped between 10 and noon. I noticed the other tents were higher so I set the legs up to the tallest setting - people started slowing down and occasionally stopping. After I made the sign and put it in on Sunday, folks started stopping to talk and finger the merchandise. I actually think the high traffic may work against me because they are moving so quickly. It's a double-edged sword... :?

Went to a craft show this weekend and had some really lousy results that I wanted to share. This place is a tourist trap and draws hordes of people - on a good weekend maybe 3-5K over two days. There are about 80 vendors with just 4-5 that sell anything remotely related to iron and I am the only person who forges or uses natural finishes. It's also a pretty classy show that requires the vendors to make all of their own wares - no cheap imported stuff and there is a waiting list to get in. Most of the vendors are long time participants who have been there 5 or more years. I went for the first time in June and made over two hundred bucks, which I didn't think was too bad since I had no prior exposure there. All of my stuff is within the normal price ranges for this type of show - in fact, I may be a bit on the low side compared to some items. Well, boys and girls, on this fine weekend, I sold a grand total of one item for $10!!! - with about $3,000 of inventory sitting on my tables. Most of the other vendors were complaining about low sales but I think I must have set a record. I was positioned between two popular vendors so customer traffic was outstanding but I could not get anyone to stop or even slow down on Saturday. That night, I made a quick but neat sign and hung it at eye level on Sunday. Voila, much more traffic stopped and I gave away about 75 biz cards but no cash exchange. Lots of folks said the stuff was "BEYOOTIFUL BEYOND BELEEF!", then winked and said they were thinking about Christmas before asking if I'm there next month. Of course, I said "yes" and off they went. Anyone had a similar experience? Anyone have any suggestions (besides telling me my stuff is crap... :oops: ). Should I just bite the $100 a month booth fee and hope the fall is better? Decisions, decisions... :roll:

Don't be too quick to pitch the elbow band. I hammered over 20 years with no elbow or arm pain until I suddenly blew some tendons a couple of years ago. I managed to accomplish this feat by going out to the anvil cold without warming up and attacking a big piece of steel with a 3 lb hammer. Thought I was a goner but I bought an arm wrap and used it religiously for about 2 months. This allowed me to continue working, my tendons healed with the regular exercise and the band kept everything together. I am now back to a nude arm... :shock: Almost everyone recommends keeping your thumb off the handle so try a softer grip with thumb on the side. Unfortunately, thumb-on-top was how I was taught and I can't seem to "unlearn" it but apart from that one incident, I don't experience chronic pain. I'm also not a doc nor am I endorsing anything but Aleve really helps on those occasions where I have a twinge. It is an anti-inflammatory and helps to reduce swelling, which can cause pain even when you aren't working. As Daryl said, thin the handle to where it's comfortable - most handles are too big in section. Farriers also seem to like very long handles - try a shorter one and see if you like it. Play with your anvil height. I'm six feet tall in my socks but prefer a lower anvil because I have monkey arms and can tolerate heights that would probably be comfortable for someone 5'6" or shorter. A high anvil makes me choke up and tighten my grip. Don't be afraid to experiment - pain is no fun... :wink:

Daryl, That's why I like jackhammer stems with an integral collar for cutoffs. All one has to do is forge the shank and the working end. Other notes on cut-offs: Mine are very thin in section and slightly radiused over the edge long ways, i.e., it's not flat across like a wood chisel but curves and drops off at the edges. In addition, the edge is beveled only on one side so one cuts very close to 90 degrees and the other leaves a wedge end on the cut piece. I can turn the hardy to get whatever desired end I want.

Hi Ed, I work on a 250# Peter Wright or a 100 lb "no-name". The big one is my main "battle anvil" so it's the one that sees daily use and has a 1-1/4 hardy hole. All of my general use hardy tools - like the cut-off - are forged from a solid piece but I make a lot of quickie jigs and often take a piece of 1-1/4 flat and bend it into a "U", then weld it to a plate. At that point, I can weld anything I want to the plate. If the "U" is 4-6 inches long, it will not typically jump around anymore than a solid tool. I do this because 1-1/4 square solid stock is not something I usually keep around the shop. Jock over on Anvilfire has recommended against a tight fit in the hardy hole due to the possibility of creating a wedge effect and breaking the heel off the anvil. Coincidentally, when I bought my PW, I found it had cracks progressing from both rear corners and the heel was close to falling off. I gouged out the cracks until I had good metal and then rebuilt it back with weld material. The other problem with an overly tight fit is getting the tool stuck. A professional smith I know uses the lock-in method on one of his anvils (he has two near the forging area). He welds a nut to the bottom of a piece of square tubing and uses a large bolt running thru a big washer to hold the tool in place. This firmly locks the tool and he has no problems with anything moving when he doesn't want it to. After I saw his setup, I made a couple of tools for my small anvil that had a small loop welded to the end of the shank. This anvil sits on a steel stand so another loop welded on a leg allows hooking a spring between tool and stand. I also discovered it's best to make some sort of hand tool to grab the spring quickly or you are fighting it but after a while, I didn't see the need for this much complexity so I abandoned the idea and went back to my other methods. I post all of this just so a beginner can see there are lots of different ways to get a bottom tool to stay in the anvil. I also have several vises mounted around the forging area so I often put a tool in each vise and leave them there for whatever time is required.

<> Glenn, I agree that the final product appearance is important but so is the time it took to get there - especially in a small production shop such as mine. It may take me all day to get a prototype done but I often make jigs as I go - to assist in whatever repetitive work comes when it is produced en masse. However, when I'm done making jigs and creating a work instruction, making the piece should then go as fast as possible. I make over 40 items in production so I have to be able to go back to something six months later and make it properly and quickly without "reinventing the wheel". Mr Moore may have said that quote, but he would have fired the smith who took twice the time that the next guy used to make the same thing. Number of heats is an indicator of skill - if Smith X can properly forge an item in 3 heats and Smith Y takes 6, then Y is doing something incorrectly - given the same result. Doesn't make any difference if they are using hand tools or a power hammer - proper tool manipulation is critical. Time is money...Hollis

I make a lot of scrolls. I seldom use heat after the first 6 inches are done but use a pair of bending forks to take little bites and scroll the large part cold. As has been said, it's not like doing burglar bars on a Hossfeld. For example, a leg for one of my standard plant-pot holders has a fishtail scroll at the bottom and a split, double back scroll at top. A single piece starts at 18 inches long and ends at 12-3/4. I make these frequently and have it down to 4 heats on the bottom and 3 heats on the top - this is moving right along with no hesitation. Three of these legs go on one holder - that's 21 heats just for the supports but I work two or three bars at a time in the gas forge and not much time is spent waiting. At normal working speed, I can do six legs an hour when the forge is at temp, so about 1-1/2 minutes per heat.

Don, That's exactly what it is - moisture. I had some coke that would go off repeatedly and throw pieces everywhere. I push the fresh coke in from the side and it usually heats up enough to drive off the water without tossing shrapnel.

I prefer coal for all the wrong reasons - I like the smell and it takes some work to use - BUT - I use propane almost exclusively because I do a lot of production work. I can start it and forget it plus propane is real easy to get at the gas dealer two miles away.

My stick welder gets more overall use than anything because I am always fixing something, usually outside and usually dirty. Last week, my son was hauling a stock trailer home and the brake axle spun in the U-bolts, ruining two tires. He made it home and I was out til dark fixing that and everything else that broke since the last time he visited. The other tool I use constantly is my home made 2x72 belt grinder - it seems to run all the time. As far as time savers, I have a piece of very small I-beam (1-1/2") that I drill over. The piece is supported firmly and all chips go in the channel. I can drill 50, 100 or more pieces without having to stop and clean all the time. Other things - I have a multitude of pin and scroll jigs all over the shop. I make them in my spare time in different sizes so they are already there when I have to do a job and a certain scroll or radius is needed. I also have my chop saw sitting in a series of holes on my layout table and can move it to cut a variety of lengths with a material stop that can be moved to preset measurements. This allows me to cut anything from 3 to 24 inches without using a tape - just set the stop on the mark and start cutting. Things I WANT to do - put overhead air, propane, electrical and water drops all around the shop so I don't trip on cords and hoses.

Chortle, chortle... Those breaker bits your art teacher told you about were all I used in the early days for my hot tools - they work great. Try air hardening first because some are S1 so water quench is too harsh.

I bought 5 gallons of Texaco Quench-Tex about 20 years ago and still have most of it in an old milk can which has the flip top on a chain in case of fire and the metal body is safe in the shop. It is a thin mineral oil and works well for oil-hardening steels.

Mass is the key...under the hammer. Ever notice the difference hammering out on the end of a good anvil's horn? More harmonics and less rebound for the hammer. The primary problem with rail track is the thin section of web that joins top and base. With this in mind, look for anything that is blocky or has its bulk under the work surface. A big piece of shaft mounted on end works well. I think the truck axle idea is a good one and so are the tractor weights but I would not go to the trouble of adding hard surface rod - just tack them together as you suggest and use it.

My $.02...others will add theirs: 1. I think coal or charcoal is the best fuel for a beginner but if they can spend some money, they could buy a propane forge. In some areas, propane is much easier to obtain and some neighbors don't like coal smoke. A torch is OK for small stuff but the student will probably get frustrated quickly on general work. 2. Anything that is block shaped with mass. We are so anvil-silhouette conditioned, we can't see the value of a big steel block. 3. Vise grips work fine for the short term. 4. Depends on what they want to make. Junkyard is a good learning experience but new stock guarantees consistency. 5. A lot can be accomplished with basic tools and some determination. Punching holes will require a bolster of some sort but the other normal blacksmithing operations are achievable. Basic stuff - heat source capable of welding temps or at least a good yellow, 2.5 lb cross-peen hammer, anvil block, anvil stand, vise grips, some sort of vise (even small imported bench type), a variety of stock and a hack saw (or bolt cutters). A & B. Go to a school or have an experienced smith show you some things. OJT is slow and laborious. C. When they personally feel the need that the tools they are using are more of a hindrance than a help.

Rick sent me a PM with some questions on this but I thought I'd share some thoughts on the scroll form part of the thread. A buddy of mine does large (24" OD) scrolls for gates and fences. He has a "lazy susan" type of bender that is nothing more than a two pieces of pipe, one inside the other, with a frame on top to accept different form jigs. He has material stands that can be set level with the bender so the whole piece is laid flat. He starts the scroll hot with about a 12" heat then winds up the rest of the stick cold after the interior is trapped in the form. The lazy susan has some lugs welded on so any convenient cheater bar can be used for leverage to do the bending. The whole thing is made from scrap and works well for the purpose.