Steve Sells

[steve sells]Welcome to Friday night knife chat last week we started to cover sand belt grits for getting a nice finish. since only a few of you were here, I hope you read the re post in the finish and polish section of the forum talked a little bit about grits and stones and how stones leave an open surface, a while belts tend to roll over the grain, a burnished effect... We have a BP for tonight about polishing, grinding and in general, getting a nice finish to the blades surface. Since Rich Hale wrote this BP, it makes sence to snag him and let him take it from here and do what he wants with it.... RICH:
[Rich Hale] Ok Let me speak a bit about this before I hot link it...sorry in advance about the lines. I do two kinds of finishes Damascus and mirror polished stainless...and for folders a hand rubbed finish on ss or carbon blades,,,Will not cover the hand rubbed this eve. The bp covers the mirror polish fairly well and tips on grinding. Let me say this first about damascus. I take my damascus blades to an A-16 finish before etch if they have pure nickel in them that lets the nickel shine bright after the etch. Other steel mixes I go to an A-45...The BP0235 explains those letters.

http://blackstoneforge.com/235/BP0235.shtml

[trying-it] Oh well what's a few lines among friends and great teachers..... going
[Rich Hale] One note as we look I not longer use the course 3M yellow belts and use norton blaze now
[markb] could you talk about the plunge cut Rich
[Rich Hale] Have you gotten through the bp Mark?
[steve sells] I will repost this chat as usual and try to make this BP available also
[markb] I just started grinding on the KMG
[steve sells] use scrap at first wont take long at all to get used to the new machine and contact wheels
[trying-it] I am playing safe this viewing; select, copy, and print all
[markb] Love vari speed, and have only used the platen. Noticed sharp belts make a BIG difference
[steve sells] You do know you can SAVE a BP. when you are on the page, use the SAVE PAGE feature in your web browser
[Finnr] Did that!!!!
[Rich Hale] And By the way this is one of the Bps that is not available until the wizards do the rest of the magic stuff that they do and surface all of them. But for now Glenn and Steve drug this one out for our use this eve.
[trying-it] print pages in notebook are saved even after puter crashes. BP235, so close, but was so far out of reach till now again. Thanks Rich & Steve
[fat pete] soo what if you dont have the grinder....how do u put your edge on
[steve sells] Files, even tho I do have a grinder
[lobodag] Rich do you free hand the start of the cutting edge or do you use carbide blocks glued with SG ?
[steve sells] I file the edge true by hand, my BAder is just a tool.
[Rich Hale] Ok most of us have had a look. Let me give a couple of keys to a nice finish...Belts...use poor belts,,either poorly made or used up , and you will get a poor finish. Pete we are working on finish here now and can talk aboiut edges with a belt grinder in a little while ok?
[Finnr] Can't hollow grind without one Flats and convex you can use a flapper and files
[fat pete] not a prob rich
[Finnr] Cheap belts aren't cheap in the long run
[Rich Hale] Ok when I cut out a blade blank and profile it on the grinder in prep for heat treat. I use a carbide scribe to mark two parrelel lines the lenght of the blade where the grind will follow The at the start fo the plunge cut I mark the blade with a sharpy I make those lines abouit .050 thou apart and try and grind until I can see the line barely that is roughly the thickness I leave to go to heat treat Did you all look really close at the Piece of wood that I shaped to supprt the spinf of the blae while grinding?
[Finnr] Yupper
[Rich Hale] It has about the right angle for how i hold the blade against the wheel and I hardly ever do a flat grind That wood is the key to a good grind
[Finnr] What size is that contact wheel Rich?
[Rich Hale]Now to begin the grind..you need a good light from above so you can see clearly wot yoiu are lcutting
[Rich Hale] 8", The wood is suppoerted by my hand and is resting solind on my belly,
[fat pete] Rich is your choice of grind hollow or flat ...is that a personal prefrence
[Rich Hale] When you take a new belt and grin on a sq coner to can see and feel the abrasives coming off.
[steve sells] I have a paid of lights one each side of the machine, on the ceiling in front of me as a back light, It is aimed toward me for killing shadows in the grinding side of the belt!
[markb] Do you hold above center line of wheel
[trying-it] yep, might need to find a willing belly here for help now
[Rich Hale] To save that belt use and old belt and do the first cut at a lbit of an angle and take the corner off the edge to almost the marked lines on both side
[Rich Hale] Then switch to a good belt Ilike a 40 or 50 grit blaze Grind til you are close to the line you just cut and look at the blade.See if the top line of grind is up high enoough on the blade
[brucegodlesky] all on one side??
[Rich Hale] If not grind some more but leave al ittle bit of gap in between the line and the belt I do one side at a time Bruce Except for taking the sq edge off
[brucegodlesky] don't you have problems with warping thern Rich?
[Rich Hale] Mark it is time to look close at the plunge cut area on the blade now and make sure it is the same as the rest of the blade.
[steve sells] ya got to keep them cool as you grind
[Rich Hale] Never had Bruce
[steve sells] 1 water quench when it gets warm in my hand
[Rich Hale] I dont worry a lot ab out cool unless i smell brunt flesh at this point they are going to heat treat
[brucegodlesky] OK just curious
[lobodag] I must have misted the knife center line
[Rich Hale] : Mark that make sense abvout the plunge?
[markb] I get a ragged uneven plunge
[Rich Hale] Two lines about .040 or .050 apart Tell me about ragged
[brucegodlesky] Ed Fowler grinds them into his thumbnails :-)
[markb] 10:37 pm: Rounded not straight in
[Rich Hale] Taht will support the bottom Bruce but this sports bottom and pushes the blade into the belt
[steve sells] grind what into thumb ?>
[markb] The stick may help to push in
[Rich Hale] Put a square on your weel and check to see if the rubber cushion is rounded off or square
[markb] I've been using platen
[Rich Hale] I round the corners on my wheels so the plunge cut is nice and curved.
[markb] how much rounding
[Rich Hale] I haev a thought for you Mark and will get to it soon
[markb] mine are new
[steve sells] I rounded the left edge of one the first time I used it, but I didnt plan on that
[Rich Hale] Not a lot I use a flat block of wood and some 120 paper...but on my grinder the contact wheel is drive wheel
[Rich Hale] Now to the plunge cut.
[m_brothers] lol, what kind of grinder do you have rich?
[Rich Hale] It is not easy to do with a course belt so I wait until after heat treat. I have a Hard core. I regrind the blades with a 100 grit like in bp or if I have left them thick a more course belt. Then when I never start at the plunge I start a half inch or so away and work into it. Roll the edge of your belt off the side alittle bit so it will curl up int the edge of plunge cut
[markb] Oh i like that with 220
[Rich Hale] Then I go all the way the legth of the blade...checking often to see top of grind line Yes it is more flexy....When you do other side of blade rool off the oter side a bit
[markb] OK
[Rich Hale] I have not tied this Mark but it may help when usiing the plated also
[markb] That platen is hard
[brucegodlesky] yes, it works on the platen also
[Rich Hale] The I run through the grits in the bp. And each belt change gets a close inspect for scratches
[Rich Hale] If youo cannot get a scratch out with a 220 it is likely from a 50...go back to 100 or 120 and do it agin,,,then with 220
[Rich Hale] WAtch really close that grind lines at plunger athe same on both side.
[steve sells] also be carfull not go get a wave near the pluinge
[Rich Hale] Wy it is so imprtant not to leave a scrtch and go up a couple of grits

Mike: How do you chisel the blades out of a saw blade? What kind of saw blade and I assume you anneal the blade first?

I keep it cool all the time - to retain the original heat-treat of the saw blade. If it's getting too hot to hold in your fingers, then you cool it right away. So there is no heat involved in making a knife like this. It's all done cold.

Part of the reason I didn't post any more of an answer was he says he doesn't know what that means.

This is due mainly because he wont start at the beginning and learn about steels or hammer technique, also in part becaue of him living in NZ and most of our comments are from US steel designations. HE really should learn about his local types.

The problem here is that in one post he states he is not a beginner, then in another says his first attempt smithing was a sword he made about about 5 months ago. In the past 4 months or so that he has been a member he has insisted on jumping in the middle. Regardless of what he says his actions have proven he refuses to learn the basics, would rather we tell him what he wants as he thinks he needs it.

Just scratch across it with your fingernail. The etching of the layers leaves differences that your should be able to feel most the time.

Both my pairs of glasses are safety in my bi-focal script, the shop pair also have side shields and Rose-1 filters for IR. But I can see where it would be nice to have an "add on script" for things. I like that idea alot.

if he read even the slightest bit on this forum, or any serious place; he would know its not a good idea, a shame he cant even research a little, but expects us do it all for him. Maybe a photo of 3 sets of knives is safer LOL

There was another thread about this same thing not too long ago, same thing "I want to present a knife for senior project, but I never did this before". How do they get this idea to join an auto race, but not want to learn to drive?

Stock removal is the only way to avoid forging, but heat treat will have to be farmed out...

I just ran a 1x across the face of the studs, and the stock rack is the spaces between the studs, no lost floor space, no weight on studs, as the stock rests on the floor.

I didn't realize our forum search was broken, thank you for letting us know, I will look into it.

Lucky for you there is so much about hammer material you dont even need the search to find it, as the answers are all over this site.

100, 220, 320, 400, 600

Welcome to the Nut house! I Forge Iron has members from just about every walk of life and country you can imagine.

I have preached warnings about "found metals" for years but I still see people ignoring the warnings and some have been hurt when a blade fails in use. I never heard of a law suit from the end user taking the maker to court, but I am sure it has happened.. I can only assume the maker may not want to advertise that when it happens.

Glad to have you, You may be able to pick up some side work testing metals for people around here also.

Welcome to I Forge Iron. While it is easy enough to get started making knives by stock removal, if you prefer to forge them, as I and many others do, then getting started by learning general blacksmith skills is the best way, as jumping into forging knives is very hard to do without the basic skills.

Welcome to I Forge Iron, Most the time the post is supposed to be solid on the floor to assist in taking the beating. If its not on the ground, you limit the abuse it can take, as all the pressure is into the top mount only. Just my opinion.

The lens is blue while looking at it? or through it like at white paper ?

3D glasses for a Movie?
Filter for testing color shift?

lucky for us God knows, added to the Knee mail list.

that is pretty :D

4 leaves leaving Indiana tomorrow. Sorry I didnt get them out sooner.

If you just normalize, while it may be hard/soft as stated, it won't be martensite, and will not meet the spec's.

Are you implying we delete the list, as its too much trouble to read when we need the information? I didn't read all of it because I have a coal source how about http://www.iforgeiron.com/Getting-Started/coal-and-coke-suppliers.html this one is in Alphabetical order

Welcome, we have a search engine here (we have 3 actually) searching on the term "coal supplier" gave me 3 hits. Here is the first place You should look
http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/building-coal-supplier-list-6475/

Cast AL is normally a different alloy than extruded, as the cans are made from. A side effect of the alloys is that the extruded does not always pour well, give it try and let us know how it works for you.

I might have a bit .....

cool, but then your tang is close enough to one of my designs, I am biased The flax works well with the rough hammer finish also, good choice.

Is the flax wrap sealed?

Off topic, but could this be the same David Mudge from the now dead Mokume Gane Yahoo list? I miss that list... no idea why it died...

Machine welding Jr HIgh school, Improved with practice. Forge welding by my (very) old teacher Bill Wyant.