Chuck_Steak

I'm firmly of the opinion that to each their own. If you want to drop $100k and have a collection of 1000's of anvils, go right ahead. This isn't communist Russia, one anvil for each peasant. I loathe that type of entitlement thought process (and feel very hypocritical and rebuke myself every time I am jealous about others fortune or possessions) As a beginner I started with a 40 lb Vulcan. Nothing to write home about. Then I did reading, research and a few trainings and determined I didn't really care for the traditional London pattern. Glad I didn't blow $500+ on one, which I would have done had they been lined up at every garage sale. Instead I went out and spent way more money than necessary on the anvil I wanted, south German pattern, with shelf and upsetting block and am 100% happy about it. And were I not able to find an old one, I woulda bought one of the new cast anvils, and been very happy about it as well. And if not that, lots of scrap yards have lots of chunks laying around.

Agreed with your statement. Without knowing the entire history of the part there is a bit of conjecture, but moisture could play a part. Was there any acid cleaning or descaling? Those could factor in also. I think the delay in temper may have resulted in a crack and then residual stress did it in after the temper.

I guess I don't see why it might not be. If you have a high hardness steel, have tension, and have dissolved hydrogen, I'd think it could be an issue. It must not inherently be an issue, or they'd be popping left and right. But maybe with the initiation of a small quench crack there was enough stress concentration to put it over the edge? Without having access to a scanning electron microscope, it's hard to say.

Could easily be a quench crack that developed. Also, a hardened piece of medium carbon could be susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, which will manifest itself within typically 24-48 hours of stress being applied. Most common in fasteners that are torqued.

Reading a little more in the sticky about the hofi hammer, he mentions he used C45 for the forged hammers, which to me sounds like a 1045 carbon steel. Really nothing to special about it. If it was welded with an appropriate medium carbon filler at the appropriate heat treat, annealed well, and the reheat treated, it probably wouldn't be worse for the wear. Or if your feeling really adventurous, you could take off a known amount to remove the crack. And then forge weld on a new face. Beyond my skill, but should be possible.

If your bent on repairing, you could probably have it gouged, then tig it back in. If done properly it shouldn't seriously affect it. This isn't a garage deal tho, to properly weld the alloy steel it should be preheated, and then reheat treated after welding. A tool and die shop could probably fix fairly well if you don't want to remove the affected material/alter the hammer geometry.

So my personal taste says the blue fill looks outta place as does the break in the guards. I like the guard color, like the burl color. I'd love to see the guards with tight seams rather than the gaps. Again, Just my opinion. I like the blade, overall shape, I like the tasteful as forged surface. Altogether a very nice piece.

I am, my B.S. was in materials engineering, worked at a failure analysis lab for about 8 years. Was a WI professional engineer in Metallurgy. It's lapsed now because I am currently a six sigma black belt at an injection molder. I moved to northern WI, and you take what you can get when it comes to engineering jobs. I did very much enjoy my metallurgy career, but like the lower population density of Price county a lot more. OP-sorry for the thread drift. It was a very good question, I've been thinking a lot about the most cost effective ways to ID scrap using non analytical methods myself as my scrap pile grows.

Mr. SLAG, A good point about the abbreviation, even if covered previously. There's lots of acronyms and it's easy to blow past them. Probably the OP (original poster) will be able to get an Arc-spark OES , which with modern equipment let's you get the carbon and sulfur content also. In the past, you needed to do a LECO (brand name) combustion for the carbon and sulfur and get the rest of the elements from the arc-spark. Then there is the lesser used GDS (Glow Discharge Spectroscopy). And if all you have are small samples of drillings, you could have an ICP-OES (Inductively Coupled Plasma) performed. And the super old school analytic way would be a true "wet chem" using titrations, but no one does that any more. Either and any way, having a lab check for alloy chemistry and compare to the nearest grade shouldn't be a difficult exercise.

I don't think you can successfully identify alloy based on weight. The difference of .2% carbon to .8% carbon is humongous, but the weight change will nil. If you have a ton of nickel that could make it a bit heavier, and also the high alloy tool steels can get heavy with lots of tungsten etc. By far your best bet is to find a metallurgical test lab (college or commercial) and have them run an OES. Then you will have a truly analytic evaluation of the composition. I'd guess it would be less than $500 for one sample. If more I'd check around for another lab, should be able to find one for under $250 if you ask around. Usually they will need a slice about 1" square or so. I used to do this testing myself, so I'm fairly familiar with it. (Former metallurgist here with reverse engineering experience.)

That's for the input everyone. I'm leaning towards breaking out the slab in the forging area and seeing the dirt underneath looks like, but then probably making a pressure treated box and filling a sand/gravel mix from my neighbors pit.

In the forging area it will be the normal manual equipment. Gas forge. Welder, torch. I have an MZ75 hammer on order, and was going to put that on wood slabs over an area that still has intact concrete. The compressor is going in its own room on the other side of the building in a sound isolation area. The concrete is bad in some areas and OK in others. Multiple pours over time by the looks of it.

I know it's been covered a bit before. I'm working on putting a new forging area together. It's an old building, and the floor is about 2"-3" slab concrete that is cracked and heaved. I have a few thoughts, I could just fill over the floor with sand/gravel/put run, I could reconcrete, I could break out the slab and just use the dirt. What's your preference?

ASTM A502 is what you will want to search. Looks like there are 8-10 grades that are all in the low to medium carbon range, some with alloying, some plain carbon. Several grades can be class 2, so that doesn't pinpoint the chemistry. Google Search turns up the standard for me.

It will probably work just fine. The risk you run is the bronze is harder, grit could score the shaft instead of bury in a babbit bearing. How intricate is the shaft? If it's pretty simple, just do the bushing because it's quick, simple and potentially off the shelf. You could probably do a polymer bushing or a roller bearing and get satisfactory results. Unless you have a ton of cost and time in the components I wouldn't over think it. Just keep it oiled and I'd think you'd be fine.

Black oxide, should be OK. Stainless typically not coated. Everything else: probably zinc (yellow, bright, or galvanized). Not all that typical: chrome. Usually decorative but often on hitch balls, etc. Very rare these days: cadmium. You might find Cad plating if you scrounge enough heavy equipment.

Note on the sickle sections: when was still a metallurgist, I did testing for several different "OEM" manufacturers, one used 10B38, one used 1040 and one used 1045 as I recall. I also want to say they were carburizing them, but it has been a few years. Very possible others use a higher carbon material, but you might check if they are through hardened or carburized before assuming they will make cutlery.

Even if you only bring to a moderately elevated temperature to prevent cast iron problems, repeated heat cycles with penetrating oil will free up a lot, just takes some time.

I did alot of reading about making and casting anvils when I first started smithing. Find an anvil your budget allows for. Hammer on it until you feel you need a bigger anvil. Save your money from the get go and get the anvil you want at some point in the future. I saved my pennies for a couple years and bought a south german pattern anvil that is about 140 kg, made in the 1880s. It was my dream anvil. I'm nearly in love with it. Was worth every penny. For the same money, I may have been able to cobble together an Anvil shaped object. BUT if you do cast one, be sure to post, because that would be cool to see.

The track pins I have recently worked with were produced from 4340 and induction hardened. Spark test is probably your best initial method to get an idea. Heat treat to see if it will harden. Go to your local scrap dealer who has a handheld XRF and have them test it, or spend the $100.00 to have a metallurgical lab in your area test it.

From an industry perspective, most tool steels have substantial alloy additions to get a desired response to heat treatment or for the mechanical properties (wear resistance, impact toughness, high temperature strength, etc). "Tool steels" are identified by a letter and a number (M2, T15, H13, etc). The major types are described as: M: Molybdenum High-speed steels, T: Tungsten high speed steels, H: Chromium hot work steels or Tungsten hot work steels A: Air hardening, Medium Alloy, Cold work steels D: High Carbon, High chromium, cold work steels O: Oil-hardening cold work steels S: Shock Resisting steels L: Low alloy special purpose tool steels P: Low carbon mold steels W: Water hardening tool steels The other type of material is usually defined as "Alloy steel" such as the SAE/AISI 1500, 4100, 4300, 5600, 8600 series. These typically have lower alloy contents than true tool steels, but they are alloyed, typically with chromium, nickel or molybdenum singly or in combination, unlike carbon steels (SAE 1000 Steels). In commercial applications there is a huge performance and price difference between "tool steels" and "alloy steels" and they are really not interchangeable terms. I understand where the misnomer comes from, but have found it slightly confusing in a post when one refers to "tool steel" and then says the steel came from an axle or leaf spring. Probably because I deal with this jargon on a daily basis. Important for someone that is doing some advanced heat treatment and material selection, but probably not all that important for the backyard smith.

The last two digits is very strongly correlated to the carbon content. That being said, as stated above, the numbers ultimately call out a grade and there are some variations in the manganese content for 10XX series steels. "The last two numbers refer to the carbon content in points with 100 points equaling 1% C. What you have to know is the allowable range for each designation." This statement is a bit of a simplification, but it is correct in that the last two (or three) numbers are referring to the nominal carbon content. There are additional requirements that are defined for the grade, but the numbers changes based upon the carbon content. So yeah, I think there is some hair splitting going on, but it is worth noting that other elements do vary beyond the carbon with changing grades in the same "family" (10xx, 11xx, etc). Per SAE J402, "SAE Numbering System for Wrought or Rolled Steel", the summarized description is: "A four-numeral series is usually used to designate standard alloy and carbon steels specified to chemical composition ranges. There are certain types of alloy steels which are designated by five numerals. The prefix E is used to designate steels which are made by the basic electric furnace process with special practices. The suffix H is used to designate standard hardenability steels. The last two digits of the four-numeral series and the last 3 digits of the five-numeral series are intended to indicate the approximate mean of the carbon range. For example, in Grade 1035, 35 represents a carbon range of 0.32 to 0.38% and in grade E52100, 100 represents a carbon range of 0.98 to 1.10%. It is necessary, however, to deviate from this system and to interpolate numbers in the case of some carbon ranges, and for variations in manganese, sulfur, or other elements with the same carbon range. The first two digits of the SAE numeral series for the various grades of alloy and carbon steel are given in table 1".

A36 refers to ASTM A36, "Standard Specification for Carbon Structural Steel". This specification has rather broad chemical requirements and the focus is more on the tensile properties that result. A36 typically has a chemistry of: Carbon: 0.26 max. Manganese: Not Specified Phosphorus: 0.040 max. Sulfur: 0.050 max. Silicon: 0.40 max. The important part of the specification is the tensile strength requirements of 58 - 80 KSI, yield strength of 36 KSI minimum, and elongation of ~20%. These properties don't really matter to us, however, as once you start forging the material you have most likely substantially altered the mechanical properties. Basically you can consider A36 to be a 1018 to 1022-ish carbon steel. The "S" steel you refer to is a tool steel, there are a whole slew of tool steels with various letters (S, M, T, A, etc). This is a different naming convention for a different class of steels as compared to the SAE steel grades. There are also stainless steels which typically have a 3 digit naming system (i.e. 304), which is another variation on the numeric naming system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades That link covers alot of the common naming systems in the US.

Well I did go for an even double bevel and it seems to work pretty well. I can't say I had any reason for my choice.

Over the weekend I was talking to a relative of mine who was playing around making cedar shingles for a project. He was using a hatchet because he didn't have a froe on the farm. I figured this was a do-able project for my beginning forging skills. I looked around a bit and found the couple how-to's on other sites to get an idea of the various ways to construct the froe blade. I used the arc welder to finish the wrap on mine. After welding I tapered the hole slightly to hold the handle in place better. I also bent the blade prior to beveling so it straightened itself out. I used a piece of structural steel that I had from work. It was about 3/4" wide and maybe 3/8" thick. I quenched it and tempered it, although there is not a ton of carbon in the material, so it is not exceptionally hard, which I gather is just fine for this application. The handle is a piece of maple I had in the yard (didn't have anything else easily around). The black on the handle is from a torch, I was playing around. I didn't get the blade quite perfectly straight, but I was able to split some shakes pretty thin (~1/8"). All in all seems to be a success and was a fun project. Greg