mudbugone

Nice little helve... has anyone owned up to owning or designing that little jewel... or is there anymore info available on it ? Great machine I could build that with the metal laying around my shop and use one of the commercial sewing machine motors with a clutch for power. I like it, but without any measurements or scale in the photos it's still an easy construction even if you had to guess at size... It looks to be about 40-44 inches tall...?

That's not the same photo of a hose covering I saw,but that is exactly what I was talking about... Those hoses are tough and should retain those coil springs in the event they break. That would keep parts from exploding around the area. After looking at the various spring arrangements & guards I wondered why there weren't two sleeves encasing the springs much like the sleeves on the top of a shock absorber...If there was one on each side and one was slightly smaller than the other so it could slip inside the other that would work too. The coils themselves don't expand & contract very far so that arrangement would keep the coil covered without binding up. There are numerous methods to contain those coils and even if they seldom fracture with exploding parts...I wouldn't want to be the exception !

Excellent point and well taken...everyone never thinks of everything...That makes even things that we know & forget important..

It seems to be a crapshoot as far as function goes... some look great but aren't other repairs seem quite usable. A friend has one of the original Russian Harbor Freight anvils that seems fine and then he has a nice unknown (probably a PW) that had some weld repairs done along the edges in it's past...I don't know if it's from the welds or just the original nature of that anvil but it sounds dead to me although he doesn't seem to have any issues with it. Mine's a no brainer...I can't hurt it...so anything I do will be an improvement. I'll just take the acquired knowledge and information and suggestions & combine that with the best available materials on hand under the circumstances and hope what I finish with will at least be usable. I don't consider my anvil usable for much in it's present condition.

Here are the cups I got to take down the rough stuff... Thank You--mrtom for the suggestions...

Welcome back David... This link might answer some questions about various abrasives http://www.carborundumindustrial.com/CarboAbrasiveProductsGeneral.aspx I had a chart on the cups I bought that showed their use,but evidently I didn't save it or I lost it in space...

Figured you were out of pocket David... We hadn't sent the search party out just yet... That first anvil looks like some nut was using a cutting torch to cut something setting on his anvil and miscalculated where the anvil was... It could have been down the center of the face (lucky) If this anvil could be "fixed" you should be able to do those two... http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/16234-anvil-repair-on-the-cheap/page__pid__264315__st__20#entry264315 I've seen several similar repairs done to anvils and they were almost unnoticable after time,but I don't know the process used to accomplish the repairs.

Which is exactly why they need a safety cage around them...Glad no one was injured... I saw a photo of one that had what looked like a big radiator hose sleeve over the coil spring and several with steel plates and too few with a total cage.... to have nothing at all is just foolish and as your friend found out scary if something goes wrong...

If anyone has a better photo/drawing of the hammer in my first post I'd sure like a copy of it... Especially the head and spring attachment details... Thank You...

That's what I'm thinking too... Found these pictures of the linkage assembly... pretty interesting design..... a modified helve hammer actually... has a simple adjustment for different thickness of materials The eccentric looks like a shaft with an off center insert which actuates the helve arm and then the height is adjusted by sliding the arm connector along the helve arm...very simple design... http://gallery.slackdot.org/v/projects/tools/kerrihard/?g2_page=1

Look at that drawing again... While the linkage across the top looks like the Kerrihard.... The spring is inverted... That places ALL the mechanical parts above the worker instead of the wings of the leaf springs being in close proximity of the actual work they are up out of the work zone... After thinking about the positioning of the spring that way I doubt it changes the working of the assembly much...It just LOOKS cleaner and less clutter in the work zone. It would be far simpler to build a safety cage around the top assembly that would contain any parts that might break also. It may be a Kerrihard machine ,but that's the only example of that particular inverted spring design I've come across so far after several months of online research into power hammers... If anyone has any other drawings or photos of that inverted spring design I'd like to see them.

I've seen card stock that "looked" & "felt" like metal ...actual metal would have to be so thin it would be sharp on the edges and deform easily... Now the "look alike" card stock could still be embossed and would still give the impression of a metal card... Cool idea for sure. I checked... Obviously someone else thought it was cool too...Lots of designs for such a card...Just one example.. http://www.zazzle.com/worn_riveted_metal_grunge_textured_business_card-240116066144019863

I found this unusual power hammer design in an archival online book on blacksmithing.... Has anyone ever seen such a hammer design before? As near as I can tell there is some sort of knuckled assembly at the top that actuates the hammer tup motion...(I think?) It's odd to be sure,but the spring being reversed moves the spring ends up and above the forging action for better access to the anvil...

I've got several of the large stone cup wheels and while I may use one to knock down the big lumps ...I'm pretty sure my homemade surface grinder with grinding wheels will be a far simpler method of obtaining a flatter surface. At least that way there will be little deviation as the wheel passes over the surface. I have the luxury of not being pressed for time so making something to do this easier and better is fine with me. I've got a buddy with a huge old shaper in the corner of his shop and if this gets out of hand and seems like grinding it is a crazy notion...He & I are going to talk about me buying or using that monster. They have limited uses and his has been setting for many years un-used but surfacing something like an anvil would be exactly what that machine was made to do.... It's half the size of a VW bug and the vise alone is twice the size of my anvil.... I just hate to impose on anyone,but I may for this project. He's an old fart like me and might get a kick out of using it again after 15 years dormant. Actually I just remembered he had the dang thing... it's been years since I talked to him about buying it....Thanks for jogging my brain into thinking. Might be a far simpler way to surface the anvil than anything I've thought up so far...and lots quicker. He's a far better welder than I am too. It looks like this for those unfamiliar with Antique Shapers

Ouch!... I don't like mashing fingers they usually stay sore and whenever you're doing things you always hit them again...Soak it in warm salty water "A LOT" seems to draw out the soreness... Sounds like it could have been worse...Good Luck.

Frosty--Thanks...I haven't been able to locate any information on those rods... I think I paid about $35 for 10# of them still sealed in a can. Purchasing them was a shot in the dark (I've wasted more on a lousy restaurant meal before ) I know you are more experenced using these rods than most of us so your input is greatly appreciated. I know I'm over my head on this,but it's neither a critical job or belonging to a paying customer so for me it'll be a learning exercise so any help you might share is necessary instruction on this project. As for the homebuilt surface grinder thing ...I agree it'll be a time saver over a side grinder and even if it's not perfectly constructed for this it should be better than doing it by hand. The more I'm thinking about this the more I think a simple one direction movement will work fine and then just reposition the anvil for the next pass....we'll see what happens after I locate the parts to build it...

Since you asked and I just had these made up a few weeks ago ....LOL Not Blacksmithing specific,but then this is a new direction for me...just different metal work... I picked the electric 8-Ball because I'm making a large 4' steel sphere into a sign painted to look like an 8-Ball ....the electrical sparks sorta looked like they should be included considering I do some welding... 250 of these were $16

No problem... I finally bought myself a digital camera last Fall and now I'm a shutter bug...LOL. It paid for itself just before Christmas because I'd taken pics all around my shop and 4 crackheads stole a pile of 6" pipe which I found at my buddy's scrap yard within an hour and the photo was all the evidence the cops needed...(I went back & took even more pics---just in case). The grinder thing just sorta popped into my head last night while contemplating the chore of grinding down that HF rod... I'm thinking if I build the thing on legs and set it up level I can move the grinder wheel back-n-forth and then if I need another cut just place a sheetmetal spacer under the anvil to raise it up and start taking another cut. Nothing real complicated just a rack on a rack to allow movement front to back & then side to side also. Something like a bridge crane system http://www.craneswebsite.com/2011/04/03/overhead-bridge-cranes-12/ or a plasma cutter table type assembly. Some angle iron tracks and some wheels and a little thought ought to make this doable. No wider than the face of an anvil is I could probably just build it for the front to back movement and then slide the anvil over for the next cut... Everyone that's done this (without access to a mill) talks about how time consuming grinding the face down is...this might make it less labor intensive and should be cheap & easy to build (easier than swinging a 7-9" grinder all day) Besides it may come in handy for something else later on.. I've probably got all the pieces to do this anyway just laying around...and I like weird tools anyway.

Well I have a Lincoln 225 DC gas welder so amperage shouldn't be an issue... I have a big/heavy 1920's AC welder in a wooden case but wasn't sure which direction I should take with the HF rods being unfamiliar with them in the first place... I'm considering fabricating some sort of carriage assembly on tracked rollers and mounting a grinding wheel on a jackshaft with a motor (already have several antique ones) so instead of using a side grinder I can move the grinding wheel across the stationary anvil face...much like a commercial grinder is setup only job specific. It'll only need to be 12"x 24" and aside from being more accurate it won't be so labor intensive working a big side grinder is a chore and one little slip and then more welding or more grinding... I can build a double tracked assembly and make a single pass and then move the grinding wheel laterally for the next pass. This probably wouldn't work taking large cuts,but considering I only want to grind off as little as possible it might work for this. Thanks for your insight and help... We'll see how this works out...Dave

I couldn't see investing in the Stoody rods either.... Another used anvil would be cheaper than the rods alone. I'm intending to attempt this for several reasons ... The anvil is almost un-usable as it is... I've spent thousands of bucks on welding machines and this will push my abilities to the limit (which is good) Like you it's a learning project. If it doesn't come out real well that's OK with me I'll never sell the anvil and I can find a usable anvil anyway if this doesn't work. I'd really like to fix it for the exercise in repairing something that others consider not worth the effort... I have the rods,the grinders,& the welders to do this so why not...LOL I can handle the 400* pre-heat and intend to pre-heat the 1/8" rods as well... Do you recall if you used AC or DC +/-- to weld this and an approximate welding amperage you used ? I'm just picking your brain on this since you managed to have some success at this and the more info you have prior to doing something like this the better the end result usually comes out.. Thanks for your original post on this and for your answers to my questions...Much Appreciated...Dave

There is a guy over in East Texas selling rail in short pieces ($20 a ft) He's got an ad on Craigslist,but if you don't find him...Drop me a PM and I'll try to link you to him (I haven't checked in a week or so & I'm assuming he still has it listed under railroad rail anvils)

"Woo hooo that will be some work" I'm still chuckling over that...LOL I've read & re-read Gunters Anvil repair (and several others too) I'm not too concerned with time or expense since I already have everything except the replacement heel and that may be a piece of forklift fork I'm getting next week. I have some 1.5" steel plate ,but the fork is only slightly wider than the anvil and about the right thickness to do this repair... The rest of the fork will be turned into a fabricated anvil of sorts.. (might get 2 forks if I'm lucky)..and I'll used the thick steel plate which is 6" wide on edge as the body of an anvil with the fork section as the face... If I get 2 forks I'll use the bend against the main body with the leg against the body and weld the outer curve where the heel is broken off....The curve will act as the bevel (at the face) and a short leg will fill in the part that is missing. This L-shape will allow me to drill and bolt (counter sunk bolts) the new heel onto the main body and by beveling all around the replacement I'll also weld it to the main body. I can then fabricate the original curve under the heel and weld it there to finish things off (It shouldn't break off again) Thankfully I'm not doing this because I have to...I'd just like to restore it and since I have the tools required and I'm getting the knowledge to fix it I'm taking my time and with any luck It'll come out OK... This old thread http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/16234-anvil-repair-on-the-cheap/page__pid__264315__st__20#entry264315 about welding an anvil came out better than I expected it to. If mine comes out 1/2 that good It'll be far better than what it's good for now... It doesn't even "look" like an acceptable door stop as it is much less like a usable tool. David..... I'd really like to see those 2 anvils you want to repair. Information on fixing an anvil isn't that extensive online and any knowledge we can all generate will be a great help to others... The repair I linked to above was a severely damaged anvil and to wind up with 85% re-bound is great (and it looks great too) Everyone has something to contribute on this and in the process we all learn more and resolve things as well as sorting out the good/bad suggestions. I know I'm learning and that's always a good thing...

Considering this was originally posted almost 2 years ago ...I'd be interested in how the repair has held up. If you're getting 85% rebound it must have worked pretty good. You do know of course that "everyone" says this can't be done this way....But then I've heard of several people that pulled it off in spite of the general thinking. I think your repair may be the most drastic fix I've seen posted and I'm glad it seems to have worked out so well.... Gives me hope for the poor little Mouse Hole I need to repair... It still rings and a hammer bounces on the face,but sorely lacking in anything flat or smooth...

I sorta lucked into a 10# tube of that particular rod by accident...Fixing this anvil is only because it was my Grandfathers and I want to see if it can be done (by me) the time and material cost aren't an issue on this particular project... The entire heel was broken off before 1949 and it's looked just as it is since the first time I ever saw it.... (it was my first horse) I examined it more today and took some pics after I cleaned it up along the face edges... The remaining portion of the face is 4.5" x 12" and only a small section has any resemblance of flat... I intended to bring one of the carborundum cups home and post a pic of it also,but forgot the dang thing.. The pics tell more than words... David...You need to post some pics of the anvils you're trying to rebuild so we can offer more suggestions & ideas.... Frosty has helped greatly,I even found several posts on the subject from 2007 or 08 that he responded to on another forum...I asked questions on 4 different welding forums and have learned more on blacksmithing forums about this particular repair...

That came out amazingly well.... I need to do something similar ,but instead of a chunk of the face missing mine has a missing heel...it was broken off flush with the main body. I want to make a replacement heel and re-attach it and then HF the entire face like you've done so well. My anvil still has an intact original face ,but it's so beat-up it's almost unusable as a tool... I'm assuming you built up the missing portion with the 7018 rod and then finished off the 7018 with the HF rod... Did you HF the entire face and then grind the entire surface ?...or... did you just re-face the repaired portion and then grind the entire face smooth ? You didn't happen to take any "in progress" photos of the method used and care to share them with some of us contemplating something similar did you ? I'd be interested in the way you laid on the rods as you went along.... Any additional information or photos you could share would be greatly appreciated..