irnsrgn

I probably should have kept my nose outa this conversation, but as I am sticking it in where it probably shouldn't be here goes. I believe in the old world guild system, there were Masters, Journeymen and assorted other titles that were bestowed on individuals after taking a test of some sort and the results had to be verified by several (not just one MASTER). I believe the guild system was formed to keep those individuals out who the guild deemed did not measure up. It sure kept the inept or those who would have degraded the trade out. But on the other hand it was a kind of CASTE system and I believe was a sort of CLICHE THING, and was more or less abandoned when people came to this new world to be free of oppression and the Caste System. To have a Master, Journeyman or other title should not come from ones own opinion of ones self, but be bestowed by those peers that are much better than oneself or it means nothing. The old adage the Proof is in the Pudding comes to mind and in this case The Proof is in the Quality of the Work. I have met quite a few who stated that they were Masters, and in quite a few cases I just couldn't help but bust out laughing when seeing them work. This goes for other trades as well as blacksmithing. To me bladesmithing is sort of an offshot of blacksmithing and to become a bladesmith requires a very good working knowledge of blacksmithg as well as metallugy and design as well as enginerring. I really have no desire to make knives, swords etc as I do not have the time to invest in doing it properly. I have been to busy just trying to keep up with blacksmithing, welding and machinework to make a living for myself and my family. But then I am not a MASTER, JOURNEYMAN or BLADESMITH. I am just a common everyday OLD Blacksmith and if I were to give myself any kind of title at all, it would be an APPRENTICE. Well, I got that off my mind and now you can rub my nose in it if you want. Irnsrgn An Old 3rd generation Agricultural Blacksmith.

Don, in the for what its worth dept. In my opinion the valve openings are way to small and the center section should have 2 valves the same as the bottom. Of course my bellows are larger 6 foot long by 3 feet wide at the widest, buy this is what I think will happen with such small openings; 1. The bottom section will be very slow on the recovery (the down stroke), as you are trying to replace a large volume of air by the suction process thru 2 very small openings, and the restriction will severly limit the time needed to refill the bottom section. And you must remember that the valves do not fully open so this limits the ability of the air to enter the chamber also. Kind of a general rule of thumb you can only expect half the volume of the hole size to move thru the hole due to the restrictions. 2. The top chamber valve openings will more or less be under pressure when the bottom chamber is closed forcing air into the top chamber and having only one valve opening will result in a slow rate of expansion and will require a lot more force on the handle to fill the top chamber and this factor will severly limit the amount of air you can get into the fire and thus limit the heat output of the fire. 3. The pipe extending into the the top chamber will creat a lot of friction (read restricted movement of air). A tapered chamber prior to entering the pipe will act like a venturi (read turbo charger) and cut the friction loss, thus increasing the amount of air entering the pipe. I have dual valves with 6 inch diameter openings on my bellows and at times when maintaining a large hot fire the recovery rate of the bottom chamber is slow. Just my observations from using my bellows, and guessing at what will happen with such small openings. Irnsrgn

Ralph that's really good news. I hope you continue to have good news during your recovery and beyond. Hope you can get back to smithing soon, just don't push the envelope and heal properly first. God Bless, you are still on my prayer list.

boy I must be getting old and senile, I missed this one completely, please forgive me. Helen Sandpile is on my prayer list now.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/Blueprints01/BP0127Bellows/BP0127.shtml

-Sucker Rods that big are used for pumping deep oil wells, they connect the pump on the bottom of the long string with the pump jack on the surface and are some tough stuff. click here for specifications from Norris. there are other companies also. Usually there is a code on one of the flats of the square on one end to tell you what it is for sure. http://www.norrisrods.com/products_sucker_rods_specs.asp

tie wire for rebar is much softer than wire used in hay balers.

To bad you don't know what kind of shop they came out of and what they worked on. Lots of times FIFI (Factual Information For Investigation) will reveal what the tool was used for by looking at what was around the shop or the tools when they were found. I have seen similar tools in shops that sharpened so called STAR Drills for drilling in rock. If I had them I would probably use the bottom tools to make the reins on tongs, it will give you a T section to the handles and make them lighter and stronger that way. Just my 2 cents worth

While replying to the HOW DO YOU STAY COOL thread I got a little carried away at the end on the subject of FIREFIGHTING and decided that it might be a good subject to touch on in another place, so here goes. FIRE is a common everyday tool that you use as a blacksmith to make the medium you chose to express your artistic talent easy to work, and you most likely have learned to control it to your advantage and make it work for you instead of against you. FIRE can also be a nasty side effect of your work and most people do not understand the mechanics of suppressing it when it goes wild or gets out of control. A FIREFIGHTER is a normal person who for some reason or other learns to overcome the natural fear of fire to a certain extent and defies the laws of nature by running into a burning building while other people who seem at the time to have the common sense to run out of a burning building. As you look at your own community you will see that there are few people who will except the challenge of tangling with the BEAST as those in the fire service call fire. The BEAST has to be watched all the time as one lax moment and it will reach out and TOUCH you with serious consequences most times. Firemen who accept the challenge of taming the BEAST whether full time paid firemen or volunteers go to school to learn how to defeat this monster who some refer to as DRAGON'S BREATH. These people who accept the challenge are paid by you and are provided equipment to do thier job by you in the form of taxes The FIRE SERVICE is continually finding new ways and new tools to control the BEAST that can affect our lives in so many ways. ---UNDERSTANDING HOW A FIREMAN CONTROLS THE BEAST.----- Temperatures in a burning structure can be as high as 2000 degrees at the ceiling and progressively cooler at lower elevations and will layer in the area according to temperature. Thus the need for protective gear as an insulation factor to working in this hostile environment. PROTECTIVE BREATHING EQUIPMENT is also needed in this environment as man made plastics which everything seems to be made out of nowadays produces CYANIDE GAS as a byproduct of its combustion along with CARBON MONOXIDE and other nasty stuff (THE DRAGONS BREATH). Most people who die in fires are not burned to death as is commonly assumed but are ashpixiated by the smoke and deadly fumes generated from the burning material. THIS IS WHY WE NEED SMOKE DETECTORS IN OUR HOMES, early detection allows us the time to get out in the early stages of a fire and thus increases our chances of survival. WATER is the firemans tool of choice most often but how it works is a mystery to most. FACT - heat rises, FACT - water boils at 212 degrees except at higher elevations. FACT - it takes a certain amount of heat (BTU'S) to boil water, FACT - water absorbs the heat in order to boil, FACT - water has a cooling effect on most things, FACT - when water boils it converts to steam, FACT - when water converts to steam it expands into a much larger volume as a gas, FACT - 1 cubic foot of water converts into 1500 cubic feet of steam at 1000 degrees, FACT - the air you are breathing now contains 21 percent OXYGEN., FACT - when the oxygen content drops to 13 percent the air will no longer support combustion. The above FACTS are common knowledge to firemen and they use them to their advantage to suppress or control the BEAST. Firemen use specially designed nozzles that produce a FOG PATTERN SPRAY with certain size droplets at 100 PSI and 100 GPM flow at the nozzle. It takes another type of FIREMAN called an ENGINEER or PUMP OPERATOR who operates the pump on the firetruck and who is familiar with how much friction loss is in the amount of hose that is leading to the nozzle to give the firemen on the end of the hose the proper tool to do his job properly. Combining all the FACTS mentioned above the actual mechanics happen to fast to comprehend. The nozzle man will spray the fOG (water coming out of the nozzle not in a straight main stream, but in a fog pattern to make droplets) not on the actual fire (which may not be visible due to smoke) but toward the ceiling where the temperature is the hottest. What happens very fast is, the fog converts to steam almost instantaneously, this reaction aborbs heat (BTU'S) instantly and thus lowers the temperature drastically, and the expansion of the conversion to steam displaces the available oxygen and thus deprives the fire of 2 of the 3 essentials it needs to live, (heat and oxygen) , the third element is (fuel). These 3 items, heat, oxygen and fuel are known as the FIRE TRIANGLE, remove any one and fire is history so to speak. By removing 2 of the essentials at the same time, firemen are able to quickly KNOCK DOWN the fire and start OVERHAUL (the finishing off of any hot spots) can be accomplished. --VENTILATION--------------- The Fire Service has come up with what is known as POSITIVE VENTILATION, this is a technique where instead of a fan being place at the top of a door way or at the bottom of a doorway, which only circulates the heat and smoke in a room, the VENTILATION FAN (similar to a high volume crop drying fan) is placed a distance outside a door so that the stream of air covers the whole doorway or opening and blows cool fresh air in to the area instead of recirculating it. This technique has several advantages, it will clear the smoke and heat out of a room in a relatively short time, thus reducing smoke and heat damage. The main advantage is it gives the firemen a cooler environment to work in with more visibility and also makes the source of the fire easier to find. I know you have most likely observed firemen cutting a whole in the roof of a burning structure. This is a form of Ventilation used to get rid of the smoke and heat which have a tendency to rise to the highest location. What you observe as smoke is actually partly unburned gases just waiting for an ingnition source and oxygen. Just think of the times the unburned gases from your coal forge collected in the pipe leading to your blower and when on the first turn of the crank there is an explosion. This explosion is a form of back draft and if it happens in a structure it can be on a grand scale almost like a bomb going off and scattering shrapnel over a large area not to mention the instant heat generated upon the poor souls (FIREMEN INSIDE). I got blown about 50 feet one time when a backdraft occured and I was standing approx 20 feet outside the door of the structure at the time. Being a Chief has it disadvantages too. In an effort to look out for the welfare of my men, I put myself in danger. WHAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT THE DANGER OF FIRE IN YOU SHOP. 1. Call the Fire Dept or 911 immediately, you may think you can control the situation yourself, but in the event you can't, people who are trained to will be on their way. Most firemen would rather respond to a false alarm or an incident that was already under control than a raging inferno any time. 2. Have a water hose with a spray capable nozzle handy just in case. A Slack Tub full of water is normally inadaquate and the delivery system is lacking. 3. Several ABC DRY CHEMICAL FIRE EXTUINGUISHERS readily available are a necessity, 5 lb size minimum with a hose for directing the spray is advised. A CO2 extuinguisher is also advised. This will also help you out on the cost of your insurance premium too. 4. Get a TAG to put on each dry chemical extinguisher, and once a month check the gas charge in the extinquisher and turn it upside down several times while shaking it to free the powder up, this is important if you have a power hammer, are close to a railroad or major highway as the powder will have a tendency to pack from the vibration, and pulling the safety pin when needed and no powder coming out is not a surprise you will enjoy. Sign the tag each time you do a check. this will also help with your insurance premium and is required by law in some places. 5. Keep the area around your forge and anvil free of easily combustable material and liquid propellants. 6. Most people never even consider this one, but if you have an overhead door with an opener on it. replace the NYLON EMERGENCY TRIP ROPE WITH A WIRE CABLE. REMEMBER HEAT RISES AND NYLON MELTS AT A RELATIVELY LOW TEMPERATURE. One Fire Dept here in Nebraska lost all their equipment and apparatus because of the inability to open the doors and remove the equipment. 7. When checking several hours after shutting down to see if there is anything burning, Do it with the lights in the building off and use a powerful flashlight to scan the area about chest high. Small tendrils of smoke will show up in the flashlight beam that cannot be seen with the lights on. I hope this helps you understand the suppression of fire and what to do in the event it happens. I hope that I didn't bore you with this rather lengthy rambling article. Always play it safe.

Rich Hale has some pretty good comments in his post and I agree wholeheartedly with him. Like Rich I was a firefighter for 23 years, Rich was a Full Time Fireman I believe, while I was a Volunteer. Fire fighting places you in one of the most Hostile Environments there is, next to working in a Steel Plant. The Protective Gear you wear protects you from the heat, but also contains your own body heat and doesn't let your body cool itself. Firefighting can really get your adrenaline flowing and get you on a high to the point that you really don't pay attention to what your body is telling you and this can get you into trouble. Blacksmithing can affect you in the same way in that you get engrossed in what you are doing and don't pay attention to the WARNING SIGNS your body is sending out. I was a chief for 11 of my 23 years as a firefighter and I had to not only watch my own bodies warning signs, but I had to be aware of the men under my command. Most of them were young and vigourous fellas and had not yet learned the effects of heat on them. I initiated a safety man on our dept that kept track of how many bottles (air tanks) each man used at a major fire. and limited them to 2 30 minute bottles which only actually last a little over 10 minutes in an interior attack. They were required to strip off their bunker gear and rest for at least 30 minutes and consume at least 1 bottle of Gatorade and 1 cup of water in that time besides setting in front of a fan set up at the edge of the fire ground to help them cool down. I am proud of the fact that I never lost a man or had one overcome by heat exhaustion on my watch. Remember the younger you are the more vitality you have and are thus have more of a chance of putting yourself at risk of getting too hot. For those of you who are uninformed, temperatures inside a burning structure can reach the 2000 degree range at the ceiling. There are telltale signs of the inside temp that can be observed from the outside to the trained eye. Glass Windows crack at 675

I got too hot 3 times 2 years ago to the point of quitting sweating twice. I still sweat freely all the time like I have all my life, but I am unable to take a lot of heat now. When in the shop I use a fan at my back unless Mig welding to keep me cool and also to blow the fumes away from me. I grew up amongst the older generation and have followed their recipe for getting too hot. Never drink anything real cold after getting too hot, it is to much of a shock to your system, just tap water or preferably something hot, like a cup of coffee or Hot tea, then something cooler after a bit. This has a tendency to normalize your body without the initial shock of something real cold. When working at the forge a hand towel or a large handkerchief rolled up, soaked in water and wrung mostly out and placed around your neck will amazingly keep your head cool by evaporation and normally if your head is cool the rest of you will be to a certain extent. Also dipping your arms in cool water past the elbows and letting it evaporate off will do a good job too. My 2 cents worth and I am sticking to it.

Well, I will have to go with the minority on this one. I most always wear a left handed glove, and only rarely wear a right hand one except in the winter time to keep my fingers warm, (frostbitten several times). I will not wear those gloves with a cloth back or all cloth gloves as I have gotten some really bad burns from welding sparks and sparks and dross from the cutting torch and scale from forging starting the cloth on fire or burning thru the cloth. I use what is called a drivers glove that look similar to the ones Glenn has pictures off, except they have leather backs also. I usually wear the cuff out putting them on, and when part of it gets worn or torn away they get scrapped as in my opinion a glove without a cuff is one of the biggest hazards to burns I can imagine, next to not wearing one. When you work with large hot things you are forging, (plowlays and mower blades) a glove is a must to keep from toasting your hand good and also when quenching the large hot object in the slack tub a gloveless hand invites a major steam burn. I also almost always wear a glove on the left hand when drilling and expecially when grinding. Just my opinion and I am sticking to it from expierience.

heliarc,(TIG) time. I used to do them with torch and rod before I got a Tig. If you are worried about welding the holes just put short bolts in them with silicon for sealant.

Dale (Chopper) was on yesterday June 3rd and the surgery went well. Take your time and get well Mate, glad to have you back.

Dan, we are all different individuals. I think it would be a great tribute to PPW if each leaf was indivdual, he would like that I think

Get Well soon Rich, glad the surgery went well for you, don't overdo it and heal first.

I shipped my leaf off to Glenn Today

thats about all they are good for, it is really junk cast, full of air holes and the outside is full of casting sand. they are really brittle.

You can get a leather welders apron with bib from welding suppliers in two different lengths, they usually run about $20 or so. http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/scan/fi=products/st=db/sp=results/co=1/sf=category/se=Leather%20Clothing/op=eq/nu=0/bs=1/ml=6/tf=description/to=x/se=1/sf=inactive/op=ne/sf=tax_category/se=1/op=eq/va=banner_text=/va=banner_image=.html

I have made a few feathers from small angle iron, 1/8 by 3/4 and 1 inch. I cut both sides of one end to a gradual arcing taper and then flatten it out without flattening the V where the sides meet, and cut a short taper on the other end of a predetermined length for the quill end and then use this feather or leaf block to get the veins or veining. its just a center stem ground in the center with a chamfer on one end and then vein marks are ground in lightly with the flat of a very coarse grinding wheel as shown. The V part that is left on the angle is put down into the groove and the top worked, I generally use a flatter on top to strike the hot piece evenly.

its done by a company with an expensive roller that they can dignify the purchase by the amount of use and also custom work

It absoulutely amazing how people we have never met except in cyber space have had such an impact on our lives. Jim Wilson was one of these exceptional people. When my wife Sylvia passed away Jim and I exchanged numerous e-mails and he had a tremendous effect on my life through his counselling so to speak, and again he was there when I had a nasty bout of I guess it was Post Tramatic Stress Syndrome from an incident in the service that I had blocked out of my mind. Jim and I both had similar things that we were asked and or ordered to do that you are not supposed to talk about, that left sometimes terrible memories to live with. We chatted some about these things between ourselves without revealing the details, and it really helped me. I think it helped him some to. Jim was a special person to us in the blacksmithing community and he was always willing to share his expertise and wisdom with all who asked. He will be sadly missed by all who knew him whether face to face or just in correspondence or cyber chat. He was truly a GURU to the smithing world and his book the Revolutionary Blacksmith gave all who read his words much enjoyment and insight into those times. If you would like to share your memories of Jim or how he affected your lives, this would be a good place to do that. I am honored that I could call Jim Wilson my FRIEND. Irnsrgn Jr Strasil Blacksmith SeaBee Veteran

To the family of my friend Jim (PPW) Wilson His forge is cold, His hammer is still, His anvil silent, A true friend indeed. His hands only crafted beautiful things. May he rest in peace, His soul is in a better place. He may be gone, but his memory is alive in all who knew him. He touched the lives of so many, and asked nothing in return. He will be remembered always, for his deeds. Irnsrgn

Jim, I have been doing a silent prayer for PPW whenever I have a break or just think about it. irn

Ray for what its worth, non magnetic is approxiametly 1460 degrees, steel starts to scale at 1550 degrees, this does not rely on color but on scale forming, so if its scaling you have it too hot. irnsrgn