Mikey98118

I've waited for years to dump that into a sentence, and I ain't taken er back

Gahan Wilson could not have done a better yikes, his very own self, Frosty; thank you (LOL) BTW, that little essay on welding in gas forges should preserved on this thread, too; I never heard any other arguemant slam the door on that old "you can't do it in a naturally aspirated forge" lie. You're on a roll today.

Okay Frosty; you did it twiced in one day; please post that in Forges 101. That is the best door slamming end to that old lie I ever heard!

Yup; and a zirconia rich refractory is the perfect choice for the job. You can not only use it for the double refractory walls, but for the fan too. While we're add it, this formula would be perfect for ceramic chips, in a chip forge. Best of all, it can stand the higher temperatures needed to keep the lower parts of such a forge from sagging out of shape.

Quick, quick; somebody tell a joke before we run out of page 19

How ironic; Thermal Ceramics are one of the Morgan companies; you may find the product is just misplaced from view... Were to find stuff is always a struggle, even in the US market; you guys at the other end of the pond need to stick together; especially about sharing sources. If I was in your shoes, I would look to the bladesmith groups for information first, and then inquire through Morgan. I believe they make these bricks in India, so you should be able to find them in England

Frosty,Thanks for posting an alternative method to get something done.

Using the refractory as a thin coat is a no-brainer. But using it as shaped refractory parts, and as thermally armored tile is going to be much more important; keep up the good work.

The new forge shape is a big improvement; ditto for the new burner position. However, you can buy Thermal Ceramics K26 insulating bricks from eBay, and I recommend you look into them thoroughly before wasting your money on out of date tech.

Frosty, I think your last post needs to end up on Forges 101 as a highly valuable alternate method. Choices; I like as many of them as we can get.

On rigidized Kaowool, and on K26 brick you would be applying a thin coat, which penetrates, and interweaves with the underlying material; this is important, because different ceramics have different coefficients of expansion. If you mix up the refractory for use as a superior tile, it would most likely need to lay on the outside of blanket or brick--not bond with it--we don't yet know whether or not it would crack away from the insulating layer, if used that way; it's "early days" yet. We also don't know that such a de-lamination would be a serous flaw, or merely irritating to my fellow perfectionists. We do know that the ability of both ceramic wool and K26 brick to breath is going to be a big help in proper drying

Tapering the choke encourages the burner to run hot; but at the cost of easily fine tuning the flame atmosphere; there is no right or wrong choice here. But, it is best not to cross that bridge until you come to it. If the flame can't be brought up to full power, that is the right time to trot out that trick ; otherwise, why give up something desirable to gain something unneeded?

Just as there are only a few really high in forges on the market; here are equally few really bad designs out there. The bulk of forges can be improved to any desired degree; it gets easier all the time. Basically what you purchase in most commercial forge is a fast start toward your goal; all else is negotiable.

Zirconium's cubic crystalline phase is smaller than its hexagonal phase.

Both of these materials are important pottery ingredients. If you can't find them through a local potter's supply store, go on line and get them from Seattle Pottery Supply. I have not found another source anywhere near as good as them. There are already a couple of guys on here who are experimenting with zirconium silicate and bentonite clay. As to the science behind it: The Digital articles explain the why of how well these simple formulas work. All that is left is the science of re-emissive coating materials. There are several metals, and their oxides, which are outstanding light radiation emitters, when heated. Zirconium is close to the best (cerium is number one). But zirconium, is also a preeminent insulator at incandescent temperatures. Thin Zirconium coatings (up to .020" can be used as protective coatings on crucibles, without interfering with heat transfer through the wall). Coatings as thin as .040" are used as insulating layers. Every additional bit of thickness increases the insulating value of a zirconium coating, or refractory. BUT zirconium changes its crystaline structure from cubic to hexagonal before it ever reaches forge heats; it then changes back to cubic structure on the way back to room temperature. So, zirconium tends to pulverize any hard refractory that it is included in; very small amounts of very fine particles can actually improve refractory toughness, by creating micro-cracks, but that is not Germain to this discussion. Zirconia mixtures (zirconium oxide) Can have its crystalline structure stabilized, but that used to be very expensive; it isn't anymore, but during the decades it was, zirconium silicate became a popular reasonably priced substitute; this is because the manufacturing process produces particles so fine that they won't create cracks in a refractory formula, making an end-run around to whole problem. A few forward thinking guys on IFI have been combining zirconium silicate, with various binders, to make a superior "kiln wash" for years, but now that we have really effective binders available, they will go far beyond that.

'Course you know that it probably means you will go right on being asked questions...welcome to the pack brother

As to your present half brick, it will do fine as part of an external baffle wall in front of you forge opening.

Back in 2004, I barely decided to recommend use of ITC-100 as a heat reflecting final coating, and even then I recommended separating the colloidal part of its contents from the crude particles in its formula, by adding more water to a little at a time, in a clear water glass. Without that separation, it is in my estimation, little better at heat reflection than Plistex, etc., and mechanically far less tough. Today, this product costs about four times what it cost back then; and works no better. I did not speak out against ITC-100 for all this time for the same reason I gave it a qualified recommendation in the beginning; there was no better performing substitute at a reasonable price; this is no longer true. Zirconium silicate's crystaline structure is about two-thirds zirconium, bound with about one third silicon in an industrial process that only produces colloidal grade particles. It is mechanically tough, use rated for 4550 F, highly heat reflecting, and insulating. It is supposedly flux resistive. Zircopax is CHEAP in comparison to ITC-100. When I ran across the Digitalfire article on how to use Vegum T (best) or benonite clay (acceptible) as the perfect binder for zirconium silicate (to make everything from thermal armor to thin heat reflective coatings) ITC-100's days became numbered. Plistex and other such coatings will go right on being used, because they are effective, economical, and easily used, but the bully on the block has just met the new kid in town, and he's going down!!! The Themal ceramic K26 brick has roughly equal insulating abilities with ceramic wool at 2000 F. Unlike old style insulating fire brick it will withstand rapid thermal cylcing, and is mechanically tough enough, that a thin coating of a castable refractory, or the zirconium silicate mixture above, will bring it up to snuff for flame impingement in a forge. On top of this, a single brick with shipping is about $11 from eBay. I would call this a typical "to good to be true" deal, if Morgan hadn't taken half a century to perfect it.

Thank you for the photos; I like that you included a link for the information on its parent thread, so that readers can easily find it in future

Isn't it about time that a photo, like this one for instance, found its way onto the Forges 101 thread?

Overdoing the burner size, will not melt you lining; it will be much more inclined to turn your forge into a flame thrower. However, naturally aspirated burners tend to have very long turn-down ranges. To make a long story short, a 1//2" "T" burner will do fine in that forge, so don't get sucked into looKing through the Burners 101 thread. Go straight to the T" burner thread, so you can spend the added reading time in the Forges 101 thread, which you badly need to read RIGHT NOW. That is a great beginning on an excellent forge, so please learn what else you need to know, before it ends badly. For instance, that hard half brick needs to be replaced by a Thermal Ceramics K26 brick (eBay), before the insulation is rigidized, and the whole interior gets a hard heat reflective coating.

Customcutter, Your stainless work, so far, looks like a good beginning for your burners. The second photo shows two sets of stainless steel parts, which can be used as mixing tubes, air chokes, and (with further cutting) spacer rings for stepped flame nozzles; or you can try to build tapered flame nozzles from them.

Every new photo shows a better working forge than the last; excellent. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your choice of carry handle; that is a subject on many builders minds, but it hardly ever comes up. I think this is mainly because, by the time we get to it, the urge to be none overwhelms us.

Probably; but you need to understand that no commercial forge is perfect, as purchased. Nothing prevents you from upgrading, as Frosty mentioned. There are a VERY FEW commercial forges that are a slam dunk for heat; their price ranges start at double what you are looking at now.

All worthwhile ideas, guys. This new refractory should rewrite the rules for forges even more radically than for burners. These are exiting times. My second favorite new burner (Vortex) is best positioned facing up; the old refractory choices made that an expensive proposition. "Thin thermal "armor" alone is going to be such a game changer! Customcutter, There is a wealth of solid information in the book, but why was a question it limited to the burner section. I thought heating equipment like forges were obvious, or would become so, as they were constructed. It took a lot more years to understand that nothing is obvious to anxious people; and first time builders are always anxious. This is why the two 101 threads are heavy on the why of things. You wrote " I'm trying to make better ones, so that my forge and burners are as efficient as I can make them." That makes a good direction, but a poor goal. The sharper you get the faster you will see a better way to do things; but as often as not the vision comes just after you have done something already. Better is the enemy of good enough. Both of those dogs can push your sled; just don't get too fond of either one, lest the other bite you