jmeineke

Good point. Frankly, I'm not sure what kind of work I'll be doing. I'm so new at this, I really don't know what I need or where I'll be 5 years from now, what I'll be making, etc. It sounds like the only drawback to the Ajax is the loudness (it does ring like a bell). Like Grant, though, I like the lines of the Ajax too - it has a longer horn and a longer face, thin heel for work like you've suggested. But the A&H sure is a sweet anvil... I'm not complaining - I know It's a good problem to have... Just want to hear people's opinions.

Who cares what you think? Seriously? You're one of the big guns!

That's what I love about IFI - there's always some selfless soul out there willing to help you out!

I've been very fortunate to have found two really nice anvils over the past 8 months. I'd like to keep them both, but I need some cash. One's gotta go. One is a 309 lb Arm & Hammer and the other is a 300 lb Ajax. I'd like some opinions on which one to keep. Both have great rebound and are in good shape. I dressed the horn on the A&H and welded (NOT THE FACE) areas on the table and horn that were gouged and cleaned the rust off of it. I haven't done anything to the Ajax. I'm sure it will clean up just fine. So, what are your opinions? Which would you keep? Add your comments or just click one of the vote buttons at the top.

Cool - thanks for posting those pics. I got to use the table for a real project the other day. Nothing big, but it was really nice being able to use the hold downs on a really sturdy, (relatively) heavy, level surface.

Prayers going up from Ohio.

Junk rod? Seems like a pretty strong choice of words. It has it's place in fabrication, does what it was designed to do; nothing more, nothing less. How does that make it junk? Is a 16 ounce hammer "junk" because it can't draw out 4" stock like a little giant power hammer? 1 lb hammers have their place in the shop too.

For mild steel - even thick stuff - I think 6013 is a good rod to fabricate with too, not just to learn on. No, I'm not welding car frames, skyscrapers, rockets, roll cages, so I'm sure it doesn't matter for me. As someone else pointed out earlier, you want to pick the rod that more closely matches the metal you're welding. For mild steel, which is about all I ever work with, as he said, that's the 60 series. Seems like 6013 penetrates far enough for what I use it for, it's easy, cheap and, as you said, you don't need to worry about storing it in your garage. If you don't have a rod oven, seems like your only option is the 60XX series or buy 7018 fresh and use it up right away (although I do have a box of 7014 and 7024 that I've been playing with). Funny, but Sears Hardware sells 7018 rod from US Forge that comes in a shrink wrapped package, but the box is cardboard and the plastic shrink wrap has clean punched holes in it - definitely not air tight. I see stuff like that and then hear all the different opinions about this rod versus that rod, how to properly store it, and then walk into a welding supply store that sells opened boxes of loose 7018 rod and says it's fine since it's been inside their air-conditioned store, or the guy at the counter who says just throw the lid back on the fresh stuff and wrap it in electric tape when you're done, and on and on and on.... Makes my head spin trying to figure out who to listen to, who might have an agenda (rod oven manufacturers? Welding stores with inventory they have to move?) not to mention the fact that apparently at one point it was taught that a refrigerator and a light bulb were all you needed to store 7018 in. Some people still swear by it. I'm starting to not care anymore.

I guess I should have been more clear. I do plenty of research, and I don't intend to come here so that people can do my homework for me. I've read every book our library has on welding - my only teacher is this site, other sites and books. I know what the AWS numbers on rods mean with the exception of specifically how the rod coating may or may not relate to the topic of overlays and underlays. All I was asking was is 6013 the same as 6010/11 when it comes to 7018 being laid on it. A simple "yes" or "no" is all I was looking for because I like using 6013; didn't seem like a tough question that would require someone to "get up out of their chair .... to do the research" for me. I don't recall reading in a book (or somewhere) anything other than 6010 or 6011 (I don't remember which) being used as a root pass. If the electrode coating doesn't make a difference and it all comes down to the tensile strength, then that answers my question.

Also, you'll have to excuse my ignorance - I'm still learning

Yeah, but it was talking about 6010. I specifically want to know about 6013.

Just curious - what about 6011 or 6013 followed by 7018? For hobby welding, I like 6013 - no storage issues, decent bead appearance. I have problems using 6011 - haven't quite gotten the technique down yet. Joe

I'd actually like to learn all of the older techniques, not just for the 'appreciation factor', but also I think you learn a lot in the process. There's also a lot of satisfaction in stepping back in time and doing it old-school. I remember watching an episode of "Deadliest Catch" where one of the greenhorns complained about something being hard to do and the deck boss decided to teach him a lesson about how good they have it compared to the old days of crab fishing. They turned off the hydrolics, took away the moving tables, made him hand coil the rope as they pulled the crab pot, etc. Needless to say, he learned his lesson not just about complaining, but he also knows how fish when the new stuff breaks down. Just remember that there are a lot of young whippersnappers out there, especially among the blacksmithing crowd, who love to learn the old-school ways (and have a lot of admiration for the guys who have that knowledge). I know a 15 year old kid who has a Harbor Freight ASO, a charcoal forge, a hand bellows (that he made) and a hammer and a few tongs - not much more than that - and he's learning how to make and cast bronze, make knives, etc. He won't use electricity to power any of his tools. If he needs metal removed, he files if off by hand or cuts it with a hardy. There's something special about stepping back in time and doing things the way they used to be done. He's just as happy - maybe even more so - doing what he's doing how he's doing it as someone who has all the latest and greatest. I think that's really cool. I'd love to learn to live off the land like my great grandparents did; how to live without a fridge, how to build a root cellar and can / store your own food, how to find edible plants in the woods, how to hunt & trap your own food, raise livestock, hand-plow your garden, preserve your seedstock from this years harvest to the next, build a log cabin, and, of course, how to fire up the forge and make a new ladle for maw. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to give up the modern conveniences I've learned to depend on, but it would sure be nice to know how to live the way they used to if it ever came to that. Joe

I guess my question would be, why would you not do it? Does it really matter if you use different rod? I mean, the metal you're welding probably doesn't perfectly match the properties of the <insert rod here> you weld with, so what does a third metal added in the mix matter? I'm trying to find where I read it - maybe it was someone on the web or a book I read, but I do recall reading somewhere that a root pass of a 6010 or 6011 for poor fit-up followed by a 70XX series was acceptable. Having said that, I could never seem to get the technique to work for me for the reasons you mentioned - I ended up blowing out the metal I was welding because of the deep penetrating arc, so I never tried it again. But that's just me.... I would imagine in the hands of a skilled welder, 601X at the right amperage / diameter rod would work as a root pass. I didn't even know that it was an issue until I read on here (in several different places) that whatever you start with you should finish with. I'd like to know, though.

My brother hooked me up Sunday night. I owe him big-time. He gave me his "old" Te-co clamps, a lever arm test indicator and a probe indicator and a flexible arm magnetic stand. He's been in machine shops since as far back as I can remember. Wish I didn't live as far away as I do - that place was amazing.

Dang... Just when I think I know something, along comes Thomas to remind me that I don't :lol:

Well Thomas, I took your advice. Step 1 (dressing the surface) is complete. My brother works in a machine shop and I payed him a visit last night. First we turned it upside down and milled enough off the bottom to match the surface plane, then we turned it over and milled about .005" off the surface, trued up the edges and put a small (3/32") radius on them and the hardy hole. I also had him mill the table flat. He basically just did what I told him to do, so if it's wrong, it's my fault, not his I think it turned out looking really nice. To boot, he gave me a bunch of Te-co clamps for my T-slotted table, a very nice dial test indicator, a probe indicator, a couple of clamps and some 9" x 1(ish)" x 1/8" strips of 4140 drops. I got the tour of the shop and got to watch the Wire EDM machine making a part. All-in-all, a great evening!

Well Thomas, I took your advice. Step 1 (dressing the surface) is complete. My brother works in a machine shop and I payed him a visit last night. First we turned it upside down and milled enough off the bottom to match the surface plane, then we turned it over and milled about .005" off the surface, trued up the edges and put a small (3/32") radius on them and the hardy hole. I also had him mill the table flat. He basically just did what I told him to do, so if it's wrong, it's my fault, not his I think it turned out looking really nice. To boot, he gave me a bunch of Te-co clamps for my T-slotted table, a very nice dial test indicator, a probe indicator, a couple of clamps and some 9" x 1" x 1/8" strips of 4140 drops. I got the tour of the shop and got to watch the Wire EDM machine making a part. All-in-all, a great evening!

Yeah, I agree - looks like a mousehole. I have one that looks just like it marked 1-1-13 (153 lbs).

That's a very nice looking anvil. I'd be proud of that one!

I couldn't agree more. Humility is the foundation upon which *true* greatness is built. ---- "Do you wish to rise? Begin by descending. You plan a tower that will pierce the clouds? Lay first the foundation of humility." "Humility is the foundation of all the other virtues hence, in the soul in which this virtue does not exist there cannot be any other virtue except in mere appearance." ~ Saint Augustine ~

I defer to you guys - you're the experts. My brother is going to hook me up with a set of hold downs and teach me how to use that table this weekend. He works in a machine shop, so I'm going there on Sunday night to hang out and have him teach me some things. He's been collecting drops for me - some nice smaller blocks of A2, some 1020, some 4140, some 316. Not sure what to do with it all just yet, but once I learn some more I'll have some stuff to work with. Thanks again to everyone who responded. Sometimes it's overwhelming thinking about everything I don't know. One day at a time, right? Joe

That's pretty cool looking - I like it!

lol. Yeah... I'm still playin' T-ball, you're in the big leagues! In my universe, 10,000 lb slotted tables exist "in a land far, far away" and 200 lb tables are all that anyone could ever need! I think you may be right about it being from a shaper. The radial arm drills I've seen on the net have two slotted sides - the table I have has three. It looks like what's on this web page and the attached pic. But then again, what do I know? I'm just trying to match shapes like they do in kindergarten! :)