RGraff Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Getting a bit tired of working on the gravel out in the barn or in the garage (wife is frowning on parking her car outside for some reason). I've come to the decision to pour a floor in the barn and build a proper, dedicated shop. When I built the floor for my cnc shop we went with 6" concrete. Is that necessary for blacksmithing or is a "standard" pour adequate at 4"? My concern would mostly be for the equipment I don't have today but hope to in the future, like hammers, rolls and such. Any other considerations I need to keep in mind? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 A *big* hammer will need an isolated inertia block anyway and 4" is easier to cut through than heavier thicknesses and is ok for a 25#'r. Rolls don't shock the floor and so only their weight is a consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 make sure your subgrade is well prepared too and not prone to shrinkage or swell, wouldnt want your tools to start compacting the ground underneath them over time :) are you going to just place concrete or are you goign to include rebar as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGraff Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've been told that since the use of fiber started to be popular that adding steel wasn't necessary, at least for sidewalks and such. I can't bring myself to not use steel, especially in a situation where you've got the potential for a lot of impact and/or vibration. Steel will be in this floor for sure along with a good six sack mix. The existing gravel floor includes a good, thick base and 3/4 minus on top that's been there since the early 2000's. Should be fine. Thanks guys. I'll move forward with a "standard" pour with the idea of cutting and adding more for machines at a later date. Much appreciated. Now if you can help me with advice on where to find lots of money to finish this project I'd be good to go. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1forgeur Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ask yer wife for the money, that's what I do. ( don't always get it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 1forgeur: are you sending our wives postcards advertising that you will give money for smithing equipment? If you have solid plans for a hammer you might outline a spot for it with some fiber board to make it easy to remove when you want to build a block to place it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGraff Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Great idea. On your advice I went researching and found a Little Giant site. They have an excellent set of specs for each of the model sizes with footprint and bolt layout. Gave me a good idea as to how much space to dedicate for the future and what size I could reasonably accomodate, generally. http://www.littlegianthammer.com/pdf_files/25%20LB%20FOUNDATION.pdf Thank you sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 In our neck of the woods 6 in is thin for shock stuff...but more than necessary for most anything else. if I was including a serious "striking" area then I would put that section 8 in with rebar on 6 in square and poured with fiberglass added. We have seen some serious striking accomplished and there is a whole lot-a-shakin' goin' on. Anchor bolts are a consideration, so if you want something seriously mounted to the floor, you may need some thick stuff. Many people get away with 4 inch stuff...and should in most situations be able to yourself, if the sub-base is really good stuff. Do make it flat as possible when you have it poured and have a good finisher do the final work. I am very aware of all the broom finishes, etc, but a smooth surface cleans up oh-so-very easily. if you have a smooth finish your life will become a whole lot easier. good luck Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 frankly, if you are going to the effort to plan out exactly where you want to put a future piece of heavy equipment to the extent of making a cutout of where you want to put it i would be just as inclined to just pour the pad for it at the same time so you can really clean up the subgrade around it without potential for disturbing the already placed slab(22" is pretty deep!). you might need to keep a shipping pallet(or some other form of temporary cover) over the top of it to protect any anchor bolts that you cast in place, looks like less than 3" will stick up from your finished surface, making a very effective toe-catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGraff Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm a bit hesitant to commit to a dedicated spot on the floor right now as a power hammer is a ways down on the list of "needed" tools and it may be a while before I'm financially ready. We all know how plans work...what sounds like a good idea today will more than likely not be so great tomorrow. I think I'll keep it a theoretical placement for now and when I'm ready for the big hammer, bust out a bit of concrete. I'm thinking what I have now or will have in the near future will be nicely supported by a conventional pour. Appreciate the advice guys. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Good Morning, Some people don't like the cold from a concrete floor. New construction put plastic pipes in concrete floor for GOOD heat. Old Blacksmith Shops had end grain wood floor, water and sand as filler. Picture, wood butt slices on end. Jerry Culberson did this to his shop and LOVES IT. Feet stay warm. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Highly recommend the heated floor. Here is a great source of info on it: http://www.radiantdesigninstitute.com/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 heh, i can see the future entry in the Prayers thread: "Cut hole in slab for new power hammer, hit hot water pipes for radiant heating system, in hospital for scalds to entire front section of body"! despite that though radiant floor heating is extremely comfortable, makes you want to just lay down on the floor and take a nap :) (might not be conducive to productivity, but thats another discussion :P) does the ground ever freeze where you are in oregon Graff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 In his situation I would put the tubes in the dirt below the slab and insulate accordingly. The water only needs to be 90 degrees F or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGraff Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 I helped a buddy pour his latest shop floor and he went with radiant heat. Six inches thick (another cnc shop) and a wood fired boiler for the hot water. It does keep it warm but it was quite an expense. Not sure I can handle that right now and it would probably postpone this project longer than I'm willing. If I were doing this full time and was putting up a shop in town I'd probably go that route. This hobby shop will have to have cold floors. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 It does not have to be expensive. Boiler makes to much heat. The best thing you could do is put the tubes in under your slab with insulation as needed then add a heat source later. Can be a good water heater as the temps are low, no need for expensive boiler.The link has all the info you need. My entire house is heated off a 50 gal electric water heater dedicated to the floor that turns on 3-4 times a day on an electric timer. No need for fancy controls (expensive). The cost of the tubing is so cheap it is silly not to put it in/under your slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The floor slab thickness depends upon many factors most critical of which is the state of the subgrade. All too often this is treated as though everything just needs to be rammed down hence the common (and often wrong) assumption that uneven floors "settled". Expansive soils are common in many areas. Drainage and subgrade water flow are common reasons for structural failure. Adding rebar to concrete won't keep it from cracking- it just keeps it from loosing all strength when it cracks. Fiber additives work to interrupt fault lines within the slab which greatly reduces crack propagation. All of which is to say that it's worth making sure you've got good drainage, no expansive fill (clay), and plenty of fiber in the mix. Anything getting impacted regularly should be supported separately with saw cuts separating it from the slab to mitigate vibration transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGraff Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Good advice. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Some people find concrete hard to walk on all day. You can have the pour done in 2 different levels and insert wood blocks or a compactable fill like crushed stone in standing areas like around the anvil taking advantage of the deeper pocket. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dean Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The pipe is not that expensive if it were my building the pipe would be there even if I didn't plan on using it. Fiber mesh will leave a "hairy" surface so it's very difficult to get an easy sweeping surface with fiber. We used fiber in the floors of the hog houses and it took a couple of years to all wear off the surface. The pipe layout can be routed around possible places for a power hammer, just make sure you make a good map of the pipe before pouring concrete, I didn't wish I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGraff Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Regarding walking on concrete all day...yeah, I can relate. I wonder if some of my back and knee issues stem from that. While not an option around "hot" areas (welding booths, plasma/cutting tables, etc.) we usually placed rubber mats to help alleviate some of that. Examples would have been in the machine shop or around a layout table. This shop will be a one man affair with room for the kids to join in. I like having the ability to change things around when needed like for special projects or to accomodate a new piece of equipment, hence my desire to stay away from dedicating a portion of the floor for something specific. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of keeping things simple. It won't be that big (a bit over 900 sq.ft.) so it'll be easy to heat and the equipment I'll be able to house won't be too big either. My ideas at this time are for making some personal tools, building gates and such for the neighbors, perhaps some nice Christmas presents for the family, eventually some hunting knives for the kids and who knows where it will go from there. For some reason I have a hankering to try my hand at axes. Go figure. Long story short, I won't be into any "heavy" fabricating here. I do appreciate all for your input. Vielen dank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Gates take room, axes could be done in a 10'x10' shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 graff, this might be dumb but have you looked into something like a dr scholls shoe insert to help with your back? they are supposed to be pretty good and would follow you wherever you step, instead of a dedicated mat of that rubberized accelerant that doubles as padding :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGraff Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 "...dedicated mat of that rubberized accelerant that doubles as padding." That's perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 If it is only 900 feet square etc, then install the tubing while eliminating the possible hammer install area. Down were I reside we do not use such but concrete still gets cold, so a step-onto insulator mat is nice. I have never had an issue with fiberglass not to finish out to smooth yet that would require some tyoe of extra anything. Our soil does move arounf so the usage of added fiber is a no-brainer for me. Of course your area may be of differing requirements. MANY OF US HAVE GONE THROUGH THE SHOP EXPANSION MODE in our lives. I am doing the same thing myself. Converting, adding, levelling, straining the budget etc. Please do not throw good money after bad. Plan for the future. Think about getting old and your retreat location. If being warm on the floor will be important then well so be it in your thinking today. Install the tubing todayand install the heater when money affords itself. Your location is in your plans for tomorrow. Make tomorrows your plans. Nothing really wrong with pebbles and gravel until the budget fits. Then you can put down the best work surface you can afford. Think about your budget today and long range plans. Godd luck on your decision, and implementation Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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