Is anvil ringing bad for hearing?

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Posted · Report post

I am wondering about something. If I strike a piece of iron on the anvil with a large hammer, and the anvil rings a lot, that must be very bad for the hearing, right?

Is ultrasound a component of ringing too and is it a part of what damages hearing?

Just curious.

i

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Posted · Report post

Yes,Yes,Yes, to the enth degree!!!!! Do what you have to do to stop the ringing. There are some threads here discussing that. I have no hearing in my left ear from 25 years of beating on an anvil(I'm a lefty). It can cause damage though in just a DAY!!!

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Posted · Report post

Tinnitus can easily be caused by a ringing anvil. If you experience ringing in your ears, even if it fades away, you have done permanent irreversible damage to your ears. Over time it will build up, and eventually get louder instead of fading away. I am starting that stage now. The new job has a building full of high pitched machines that even with ear plugs has worsened my tinnitus.

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Posted · Report post

There's a big difference between a little ''chime", which I like, and a tooth rattling ring.........

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I have a chain wrapped twice around my shop anvil (a Trenton), to deaden the ring. Yes that ring will cause damage. :)

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Posted · Report post

http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/noise-induced-hearing-loss/

http://www.digital-recordings.com/publ/pubear.html

If your anvil is too loud, there are a number of things you can do, some of which make it perform better as an anvil.

The first thing to do (and is good for performance as an anvil) is strap it down securely to the stand or stump. By making the system tight there is less potential for vibration, the anvil stays put, and the system becomes heavier. Fastening the stand to the Earth securely improves your anvil further and reduces ringing in a metal stand.



If you have a metal stand filling the legs with sand will reduce vibration. You can also wrap the legs in chain.

Wrapping the waist of the anvil in chain will significantly reduce vibration, regardless of how the anvil is fastened. I use a piece of "landscape chain" that was used for pulling shrubs. (see picture, sorry about the sideways bit)

Using a pad between the anvil and stump. Historically this was a sheet of lead, but dense rubber conveyor belt is a good, inexpensive, modern choice. Protect it from hot scale as it can be stinky.

Build a box and add sand to cover the feet of the anvil. In the extreme this can also be the fastening method using a drum filled with sand. This also allows for height adjustment by twisting the anvil to move it in the sand.

Phil

post-9443-0-57610400-1308231576_thumb.jp

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Posted · Report post

Even with all this

I WEAR EARPLUGS!

I have mild tinnitus. It is rather unpleasant. I used to get teased by a neighbor about wearing ear protection using a push lawnmower (3.5 hp gas). I get on my parents about hearing protection, my mom has severe hearing loss (she was a school teacher, now retired, so it is not industry related) and my dad has mild to moderate hearing loss (he was a mechanic with Firestone for 40 years using impact tools, now retired)

Phil

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Posted · Report post


Yes that ring will cause damage. :)


Without actually having heard it I don't see how you can make that judgement......It's only a teeny...:)

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Posted · Report post

WHAT? SPEAK UP I CAN'T HEAR YOUR MUMBLING!

I use a Fisher and still wear hearing protectors, *especially* when mowing the lawn, using an angle grinder or drill

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WHAT? SPEAK UP I CAN'T HEAR YOUR MUMBLING!


Well I checked my Peddinghaus anvil ring and it doesn't really qualify as a ring when pounding hot steel.......so I'm in agreement after all.
I have tinnitus I reckon but not so much from shop stuff......Gunfire mainly and probly a number or rock concerts.....Who, Hendrix, anybody ever heard or Blue Cheer.......:blink:.............The only things I always wear in the shop are glasses, shoes and clothes, and some guys don't even do that........I could prove it but not here........:o.:lol:

blacksmith.org.............forum; traditional blacksmithing.........thread ''swingin' smiths''

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I second the use of ear plugs!! Hearing loss is cumulative. Mine started in boot camp when I forgot my earplugs during a lengthy machine gun demo :rolleyes: It was further aggravated by jet engine noise (even with earplugs). When I was a welder after the service I didn't think they were necessary because I was a tough 23 year old.(d'oh!!) Then one night after a long day of grinding metal I went home and the ringing of the water in the shower created a harmonic imbalance (not sure if that is the correct terminology(?))with the ringing in my ears and it was excruciating. Never worked another day without earplugs but the damage had been done. Even now I have tinnitus to a point that I need a fan or radio or TV; some kind of "white noise" to block out the constant ringing. WEAR EARPLUGS! or EARMUFFS!! or BOTH!!!]Just saying... :)

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Posted · Report post

The type of earplugs that are connected by a flexy band under your chin have the added advantage of not coming in contact with your grubby fingers, transferred the grubby ness to the insides of your ears!

I work on a 104 lb PW under a sheet metal patio cover. Often I'll use earplugs AND earmuffs.

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On my anvils I had them dogged down tight to my steel anvil stands that was made of 10" square box tube filled with sand, 1/2" steel plate top and bottom, very quiet this way. No, I didn't have two fathom of chain whipped around the anvil either. Hearing protection is a must around power equipment if you want to hear as an old man. Unfortunately I found that out way to late for most of the frequencies required to hear a lot of the music I really like. My children think I always have the TV and the car radio up way to loud and my neighbors don't always enjoy my tastes in music and that's with all the doors and windows closed. Still somehow I know when a piece of machinery is making a "funny" noise that no one else can hear and am usually right that it needs repairing. Now I want you young men out there to take note it ain't no fun to always have the sound of a whine or buzz in you ears, day and night, especially at night when the whole world is kind of quiet, it drives you nucking futz! :( So put on the hearing protection just like you put on the eye protection. :blink:

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The type of earplugs that are connected by a flexy band under your chin have the added advantage of not coming in contact with your grubby fingers, transferred the grubby ness to the insides of your ears!



I should get a set of those. I prefer earplugs to muffs...

Phil

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Posted · Report post

I've been a good boy since young and always wear ear protectors, and always when I see other people smithing I grab for my ear protectors because the noise hurts me and I'm amazed that they don't even notice.

But then I have a father with hearing problems and I definitely don't want to end up like that.

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Posted · Report post

I wear ear plugs all the time in the shop and if I am doing something really noisy I even put earmuffs over the top of the plugs.

On my noisiest anvil I have a large heavy chain in a bike innertube wrapped twice round the waist and fastened with an old padlock. It helps a huge amount.

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Posted · Report post

recon you have all the advice you need, i put lead flashing under the beast,works well,ear protection for sure ,cheers

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Snip

Using a pad between the anvil and stump. Historically this was a sheet of lead, but dense rubber conveyor belt is a good, inexpensive, modern choice. Protect it from hot scale as it can be stinky.

Snip

Phil


I've heard that the rubber isn't that good of an idea. Apparently it takes some of the energy from working the steel meaning you'll be working harder to get the same job done. I have heard leather recommended as better than rubber, not quite as good as lead.

ron

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Posted · Report post


I've heard that the rubber isn't that good of an idea. Apparently it takes some of the energy from working the steel meaning you'll be working harder to get the same job done. I have heard leather recommended as better than rubber, not quite as good as lead.

ron


You may be right about the leather vs rubber vs lead. Lead does have some health concerns, but painting or covering the lead reduces those.

I admit I used a sub-flooring adhesive, but the bond broke free when I knocked over my stump and anvil while putting it out on the drive. It was obvious that only a thin film of adhesive was between the metal, which was not well cleaned, and the wood, which was rather roughly cut. I tightened up the bolts since the strapping bent and the lags pulled slightly and it has not been a problem. Between the secure strapping and the chain on the waist it is quite quiet, so I suspect a pad is not specifically necessary.

Phil

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Posted · Report post

I know I did some damage to my hearing years ago when I took my spiffy new mini 14, .223 out to the range and ripped off a 20 shot mag as fast as I could....unprotected....The pain came over me in 5-10 min and lasted for a couple of days....The ringing.........a tad longer........:wacko:
Question; Would the damage be less severe if I had fired say one shot every 10 min, or is it more or less the same?

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Posted · Report post

Hearing loss is dependent on loudness (measured in decibels) and duration. I believe the limit on loudness that is considered unsafe at any duration is 120 decibels. Generally speaking gunfire, within some distance from the gun, is louder than that. There are charts out there with estimates of how loud different noises are and charts for what duration is considered acceptable for a given loudness. Around 80 decibels is considered the point you need to wear hearing protection.

Here are some of the charts.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm

From this you may be able to estimate how loud your anvil is and the level of hearing protection that is needed.

Of course it isn't quite that simple. It is possible to lose hearing in specific frequencies from repeatedly being exposed to those frequencies. So if you listen to the anvil ring all day for years, you may find you can no longer hear that specific frequency.

ron

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I for one advocate the use of ear protection. I also don't always listen to my own advice!(I'm not sure that I can hear it! B) )
Having now seen that chart I should not go to ball games either?

If it feels or tastes good .....It's just going to be bad for you!

Ian

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The rule of thumb I was given is ; if you are 2' away from someone, and you have to raise your voices to have a conversation, you need hearing protection. That is why I carry foamies with me everywhere I go now. I have been in many clubs, bars, venues, etc in Las Vegas where I put them in. I used to be somewhat self conscious about doing it, but no longer.

To answer the question about the shot string, my belief is it wouldn't matter how fast it was. Gunfire is just too loud, with a pistol being even worse due to the shorter distance of the muzzle to your ears.

Again, if you have ringing, you have done permanent, and irreversible damage to your ears.

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Permanent damage to my hearing began early with M80 firecrackers. Then as a M60 tank driver in Germany with a 105mm cannon directly over my head. It became worse. After I got out of green clothes, it was great fun to go on the bayou shooting snakes with a .44 mag. , more hearing loss. A career in heavy industry as a welder,with all the noises around. Hello, what did you say? speak up please! Oh it's my anvil ringing that causes my hearing loss, silly me, I thought it was the Little Giant 100. Even with ear plugs and ear fone protectors the vibrations go deep. I have my anvil firmly fixed , not because of the noise, crickets hush! but because any energy that moves the anvil when hammering is wasted energy. Those crickets! I know it was ROCK concerts. Not blacksmithing, couldn't be. What did you say?

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:blink: Dan, could you write a little louder, please? Danged crickets! :D

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