Rivets: upsetting small rod

[john_zxz]

Hi, I want to make my own rivets for a candle holder and I fail everytime.
I have to make rivets of 1/8". I have difficulties to upset the head with
stock that small.

Is there any tips that can help me to upset the rod and make good head for the rivets? I have a tool to hold the rivet when making the head, but if I can't upset the
end of the rod, the tool is useless.:confused:

[bigfootnampa]

I usually start with 1/4" stock and draw it down, like you would a nail.

[easilyconfused]

Too add to the previous post, don't draw it down exactly like a nail. Too much taper and it will fold over. Draw it down a bit and round up to the size of hole. There's a formula I can't remember off the top of my head for the length to diameter ratio so you don't have too much metal. Hammer control is important too.

[Rich Hale]

Wot kind of tool and wot kind of material? and how many have you tried?

[Glenn]

1-1/2 times the stock diameter is a good place to start.

Using a little hear from a torch makes rivets much easier to peen. Use a ball peen hammer of the appropriate size and weight, small rivets, small hammers.

[ThomasPowers]

You don't tell us if you have the *proper* tool to head rivits. You don't want a nail header type tool but more like what you would get if you covered your vise jaws with angle iron and drilled a hole where they meet that is the depth you want the rivit shaft to end up being. You will start hot but with such small stock you will be working cold for most of the time.

Cut your stock to length---preferably rolling it so you don't have a wedged shape end, heat in a 1 firebrick forge---can't loose the small stuff!, drop in heading tool and form the first head. open vise and pop out rivit, anneal (as the tool may contact quench the rivet shaft).

I would do a line of them at one time---multiple holes as the most time is spent opening the tool and getting them out.

[Charlotte]

The easy way is to take two pieces of square steel, like 1/2 or three quarter, of a convient length say 6 inches. Glue them together with a piece of file card between,
Drill one or more holes of sizes you might want along the join of the file card, On center with the pieces held together with a clamp.

When seperated this gives you a top and bottom swage for your rivet. relieve the edges so they don't gall the metal. Draw down a close fit put in your swage, a couple of taps and you have your small rivet the exact size you want after you cut free.

Why do I say it is easy? You get a cold rivet that is exact size and length to your drilled or punched hole. If you need more than one then you can do that also without try to fit.

[Charlotte]

Of course a heading tool is good to shape the head after you finish.

[john_zxz]

Ok, I solve the problem.

The problem was that I wanted to upset the rod before putting it in the header. Thats where I failed. When I put it directly in the vise to upset it, the shaft became square.

I tried what you said: put the rod (I tried cold) directly in the header, tightened it in the vise and hammered the head with a small ball pein hammer. The result is a nice tiny rivet
All I need now is some practice.

Thanks to all of your answer.

John_zXz

[Mike Ameling]

For putting a consistent rivet head on the end of a rod, I drill a hole through a large square or flat bar that is the size of the rod. I then countersink one side of the hole a little bit.

To use, I slip the rod through the bar leaving just the amount of rod sticking out past it that I want for the rivet head. I then clamp it in my vice with the forming bar lying flush on top of the jaws. The vice now supports the rod, and my "block" holds the rod while I tap and form the rivet head. It works well for me.

For precise length rivets, I just chose the thickness of my forming block carefully. I then cut my rod material to length, slip it in the countersunk hole with the block lying flush on top of my anvil. Then tap/form my rivet head. The depth of the hole and thickness of the bar keeps my precise length. The drilled hole supports the rod so only the head mushrooms out.

And sometimes I don't countersink the drilled hole - so the rivet head is flat to the surface when I am done.

The rest is just practice. After you make a hundred or so you get much better. Like when I made that second Viking era/style riveted sheet iron kettle. There were only around a hundred rivets between all the various panels. (Yeah, I used around 1/3 more rivets than I really needed to - which I learned after completion.)

Mikey

[CurlyGeorge]

John, that rivet header that you show in your pix is real handy to have. I have one like that, except it can be opened all the way and closed backwards. It has a row of rivet sizes on one side and a bunch of different sizes on the other. I'll get a picture of it tomorrow and post it. Good luck and keep on practicing. :)

[David Einhorn]

For small rivets you could try using iron "pulling wire" that is used in machines to pull the smaller wire used in screens. It is very soft and is close to being pure iron.

The two rivets used in the bellows pole shown below were lengths of 1/4" diameter pulling wire simply inserted into the holes and hammered cold on each end. The wire is soft enough that it spreads nicely and does not crack or split.

The wire comes in coils of 1/4", 3/8" diameters and is rumored to come in diameters up to 1/2". I don't remember if the coils weigh 50 or 100 pounds as delivered.

I apologize for the labels on my pictures, but I have found some of my pictures used on commercial sites without any credit given.

[CurlyGeorge]

Hey John, Here are the links to the pix of my rivet header, in my gallery.
Two Sided Rivet Header - Blacksmith Photo Gallery
Two Sided Rivet Header - Blacksmith Photo Gallery
Good luck. These tools work great!! :)

[john_zxz]

Hi CurlyGeorge!
That's a very nice tool. I like the idea of two sides of this tools. With the same tool, you get more different holes. With mine, I only have 5 sizes. I don't know why they put 2 holes side to side the same diameter though?!

And UnicornForge, I'll look at pulling wire. It's seems interesting metal to make rivets. Thank's for the info.

[ThomasPowers]

The wire used to ship bundles of re-bar (not tie wire, but shipping wire) is also quite soft; I have a pile of it from a major project that my brother asked for and was given. probably a lifetime supply. It's thicker than 1/8" though! (1+" rebar used on that project!)