i want to make a mini axe for my son for making tinder or some small carving things. can i put a steel edge on a copper axe head? is it possible or am i dreaming?

Theoretically, I don't see why copper and steel couldn't be forge welded, although copper contaminating the fire is one reason I've heard for a failed weld, and it may be trickier than it's worth. A more sure bet would be to silver solder the pieces together. Note that this is is hard silver solder (which melts somewhere around a low red heat), not the lead free silver bearing soft solder sold at your local hardware store (which goes somewhere in the 400-600 degree range).

James Binnion has made copper iron mokume gane.

You can "braze" (hard solder actually) iron and steel with copper.

Ron Reil was forge welding copper a couple years ago.

So, I don't know how practical it'd be or what you'll need for a process but it should be doable. Please take careful notes and get back to us with progress reports, results and best of all pictures.

Frosty

the old wat to put a steel edge on a non ferous base is to use a dovetail joint and forge it tight... dont know how much guff it will stand up to ... but i have seen where pipe tommahawks were done that way... there is no way copper and steel can be forge welded... theyre totally uncompatable and melting point of copper is to low... the copper would be molten when the steel is only yellow heat! silver soder would work possably in combination with dovetail... good luck!

As Dablacksmith says - copper melts about 1900 F, steel about 500 degrees hotter, can't be welded together.

You might want to forge your axe then overlay thin sheets of copper on the sides with silver solder. Same look stronger tool.
Phil

Edited March 7, 200917 yr by peacock

As Dablacksmith says - copper melts about 1900 F, steel about 500 degrees hotter, can't be welded together.

if you say so. Pattern welded steel and bronze, which is Tin and copper.

pattern welded blade with bronze - Blacksmith Photo Gallery

Edited March 7, 200917 yr by steve sells

All this discussion centers around how welding versus brazing is defined. Certainly copper, brass, bronze and silver can be brazed to iron and steel. One could call this welding. I wouldn't.

Warren

Scroll down the page to figure 9. "Brass, copper, sterling silver and iron in various combinations and patterns with a variety of patinas coloring the metals"

The Mokume Gane Story

Mokume Gane is diffusion welded dissimilar metals.

I couldn't find Jim's gold and iron tea pot but didn't spend a lot of time looking. Currently he's making titanium zirconium Mokume Gane and other exotics, he just isn't using a forge, anvil and hammers.

Frosty

perhaps its what you are calling forge welded, in one case you are layering thin parts of different metals, and possibly fusing?? them together as in a forge weld, but the fact that it is layered allows for this? as opposed to putting 1/2 " of copper and forgewelding it to a big chuck of steel. maybe the difference in melting temps in larger lumps makes the process much harder to do in a blacksmiths shop? this is all speculation on my part . kevin .

i am making an axe head out of copper and taking 2 1/8 in steel rods and making those into a large steel lump. then i wil try to heat them both up really hot and hammering them toghether into one solid axe head. i would like to note this is my first tool i am making from scratch so, this project will be butchered or it will work ok.

I have decorated steel pieces with copper using tig and it sticks very well. Never have welded steel to copper. Also have tig welded 1/8 copper to copper but it must be done quickly because if the heat gets ahead of the weld it comes to a screeching halt, doesn't want to fuse. I am not a metalurgest but I think that copper absorbs oxygen when it gets really hot.

All I'm saying is it should be possible to bond copper and steel solidly. I've seen it and held it in my hands. Whether a steel bit can be fitted into a copper axehead is another matter and I'm more than a little interested in hearing how it works. Or fails to work, I frequently learn more from failures than successes.

Here's one Idea I had. Forge the copper axe head including a slit to receive the bit. Forge the bit with barbs where it's to insert into the copper but leave the bottom end blunt or even slightly wider than the rest. (This is just a thought to maybe prevent the bit from being driven into the copper body in use.

Tin the insert with copper. (call it coppering if you wish)

Now, flux and bring the copper body to close to melting temp and heat and flux the bit till the copper tinning appears "wet".

Drive the two together and forge the copper onto the bit.

I don't know if it'd work but this is what I'd try first.

Frosty

i did try today but the steel did not get hot enough (it was only red hot) and i will try again tommorow in my brand new improvised forge (an insulated metal garbage can with a pipe to blow air in with).

What kind of forge are you using? A camp fire and hair drier will melt copper.

If you'll click "User CP" at the top of the page and edit your profile to show your location it'll help us help you. There may be someone close enough to give you a hand directly, let you know about get togethers, tip you to tool deals and the like.

Frosty

Metal garbage can as a forge? I would be very carful of heating the galvanizing on the can..

i have about 4-5 inches of sand and 1/2 in of concrete on the inside, although personally i don't think i will get a fire hot enough to melt the can.

What fuel are you using? Charcoal or coal I assume?

Frosty

i am using charcoal in a weber grill right now but once i get my homemade forge going ill still use charcoal ill try too include the chisel i made today bet have not put a handle on yet. and i meant to have a bend in it.

just a thought what the heck happens to the galvanizing on the can if it gets too hot?

You could DIE with enough exposure. Look a few lines above this post, there are a few sticky;s on it.

um that is bad for me and i certainly think that i might go with another idea then. something that won''t kill me if i use it.

One of the problems with copper and iron is that copper will literally melt into the iron grain boundaries and cause it to fall apart. This is called liquid metal corrosion and is why smiths generally do not mix copper and iron. Note that many tanks and anti-tank aircraft fire sabot rounds made of copper. Upon impact it is liqufied and it eats through the armor. What happens inside the tank is not pretty.

that is very interesting. hopefully the chisel i made will keep my son busy so i can have time to make him a mini axe out of something else.

what is a good way to make a homemade forge on the cheap?