Junksmith Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Just going through some photos and thought I'd share. This monster occupies a repair shop at the railroad roundhouse being restored in Martinsburg, WV. I'm told that it ran on steam, but they were using compressed air that day. I didn't se a demo per se, but the smith on hand used it to smash a quarter. That hammer head came down with what can only be described as "Authority". Cool.:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech413 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Nice, I want one! Then I wouldn't need my striker anymore:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayorofperryville Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 thats a real mans hammer! do you know how old it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Nice! Steam? Air? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksmith Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Mayor, I don't know for sure how old it is. It was part of an"open house" at the roundhouse that the locals are trying to restore. I'm sure that the roundhouse has been out of service for 50 years or more and if it is native to the roundhouse then it must date at least to the turn of the century. They sure did a nice job of refinishing it. Dodge, The smiths demonstrating on the site said it was originally steam powered. For the demo they were using a tow-behind air compressor. A welder I know had been there earlier in the day told me that he thought it was really underpowered by the air. It certainly was slow moving on the upstroke - but then I'm no expert. The welder had worked at a steel mill before though so I'm taking his word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksmith Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 If you look at the lower left hand corner of the photo, you can see the air hose feeding it. Looks a little small compared to the intake pipe... and for filling that cylinder at the top! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Actually for an H frame that one is "cute" sized; when you can drive your van under the arch they start to be considered a bit large. More energy in steam than compressed air but the hassle of running a pressurized steam plant is very high nowdays---first question I asked when I met a fellow working on getting a young steam train resored was "who you have running the boiler". Turned out they had the last engineer for it on tap *and* he was certified as an instructor for it too! (made in the 1940s and was steam as all the big diesels were allocated for submarine construction). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nett Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 A tow-behind air compressor, which I assume is a rotary compressor should produce enough air to run that hammer if they used a bigger hose. You can only push so much air through a small hose and that hammer needs volume. You know what I mean, Vern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 WOW !!! Gotta get me one o those!! Talk about SMASHY SMASHY!! I grew up in Maine, I lived near the Owl's Head Trans Museum, They had a large steam engine that had vacuum cups to assist with starting and helping the enginge get past TDC and BDC. Where that comes in here is that they refitted it to comprssed air to make it run for demos!! They also had a few other steam engines they demoed to! The 2 cylinder steam launch engine was great too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TASMITH Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I have worked with large steam powered hammers where I took my apprenticeship at a major steel mill. Yes that hammer would be underpowered by far just using compressed air. The largest steam hammer in our shop was a 3000# chambersburg and the steam to operate it was supplied at 250# sq/inch. The hammer had about a six foot stroke and with the steam opened up it would bite an inch into a 14 inch square billet on one stroke. The base for the anvil of the hammer was a 40 ton ingot buried about seven feet down. When we forged the large billets for mill rolls, or large overhead crane hooks, the vibrations would be felt all through the shop floor not to mention through the bodies of the Smiths and helpers working the job. Very challenging work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Whats the difference in power between steam and compressed air at the same pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfb343 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Junksmith, where is this in martinsburg? do you have any contact info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Stegmeier Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Steam has more bang, because it is HOT and expands into the space inside the cyclinder a bit more vigorously. Everything else being equal. The limiting factors for any type of air or steam hammer are how much free air/steam you can pump through the system to the hammer. (To be honest my little 75# air hammer could use a small 75-100 CFM rotory screw compress to good advantage, if I had my Johnson trough forge hooked up... ;-) A freind of mine has a 650# hammer set up to run on a 350-375CFM compressor (It looke like a 1.5 ton utility body on running gear, I think it could also throw his 1500# hammer...) A hammer designed to run on a 3" steam line, is going to require a HUGE amount of compressed air... To set one of these thing up to run on air, you need a big rotory screw compressor, a big air reciever with a pressure relief valve, big pipe running to the hammer, and then a big filter/regulator/oiler and then ideally a big muffler vented to the outside of the building... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDJ Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Some day I would like to see this one,Creusot steam hammer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Hi all I often get asked, "phil I'm looking to buy a steam hammer, how big of an air compressor would I need to run it". When you work it through they always loose interest. Just for fun though, going by the size of the blokes head to the size of the cylinder I would figure that hammer to have a 10" piston with say 21" of stoke, allow say 80 full blows per minute, powered in both directions. 10 x 10 x 21 x .78 = 1638 cubic inches x 2 (to fill the cylinder both on the up stroke and the down stoke) = 3276 cubic inches of air needed per stroke (OK i did'nt deduct the area of the rod from the bottom of the cylinders volume but that will allow some margin for error) convert this to cubic feet = 1.89 cubic feet of air per stroke x 80 stokes per minute = 151 CFM of air deliverd at pressure to the hammer. Massey recommends between 45 to 80 PSI air pressure to run a steam hammer on steam or air. Air compressors are rated on CFM of free air pumped(free air cfm to air delivered at 100psi needs an 8 to 1 compression ratio) so for 80psi, at a guess we use a 6.5 to 1 compression ratio, gives us a free air cfm rating needed of 981 CFM. Pretty big air compressor. Allowances can be made for waiting in between heats, running at a lower pressure etc to allow the air comp to catch up, but if I was looking to use a hammer for any real forging, I would seek to have an air comp bigger than what I was going to need, I would hazard a guess that that hammer to run properly taking into account any allowances would need a 750cfm air compressor. (that would need a 187 HP motor jus so you know)) We used to need a 250 rotary screw diesel air compressor to run our 3CWT steam hammer, then we converted to a 30HP steam boiler which handled it easy. (general rule is 10 horse power of boiler rating per CWT of hammer) Hope all this made sense Phil Edited February 24, 2009 by forgemaster to make some sense of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merl Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi all I often get asked, "phil I'm looking to buy a steam hammer, how big of an air compressor would I need to run it". When you work it through they always loose interest. Just for fun though, going by the size of the blokes head to the size of the cylinder I would figure that hammer to have a 10" piston with say 21" of stoke, allow say 80 full blows per minute, powered in both directions. 10 x 10 x 21 x .78 = 1638 cubic inches x 2 (to fill the cylinder both on the up stroke and the down stoke) = 3276 cubic inches of air needed per stroke (OK i did'nt deduct the area of the rod from the bottom of the cylinders volume but that will allow some margin for error) convert this to cubic feet = 1.89 cubic feet of air per stroke x 80 stokes per minute = 151 CFM of air deliverd at pressure to the hammer. Massey recommends between 45 to 80 PSI air pressure to run a steam hammer on steam or air. Air compressors are rated on CFM of free air pumped(free air cfm to air delivered at 100psi needs an 8 to 1 compression ratio) so for 80psi, at a guess we use a 6.5 to 1 compression ratio, gives us a free air cfm rating needed of 981 CFM. Pretty big air compressor. Allowances can be made for waiting in between heats, running at a lower pressure etc to allow the air comp to catch up, but if I was looking to use a hammer for any real forging, I would seek to have an air comp bigger than what I was going to need, I would hazard a guess that that hammer to run properly taking into account any allowances would need a 750cfm air compressor. (that would need a 187 HP motor jus so you know)) We used to need a 250 rotary screw diesel air compressor to run our 3CWT steam hammer, then we converted to a 30HP steam boiler which handled it easy. (general rule is 10 horse power of boiler rating per CWT of hammer) Hope all this made sense Phil Great post, Forgemaster. It's true, steam is always more powerfull than compressed air. I wish it was easier to produce. Well lets say "more practical" to produce. I'm always daydreaming of a way to make a water tube type boiler that would be a "turn key" operation and practical for use in a small shop for guys that want a line shaft setup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aspery Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 See your hammer and raise you one! This is in Blanavon in wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksmith Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 RFB 343, Here is a link to the roundhouse website. They have contact info and directions listed under "Visitor Information"Home -Martinsburg Roundhouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Phil ,, 30 HP = to 294.29 kilowatts (kw). , i'm licenced to run a 10,000 KW boiler , just incase you need a boiler attendant . Also , is it a boiler your running or a steam generator ? Dale Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Hi Dale I was going to put the doors back into the boiler and run it for our last blacksmithing open day before we leave this shop, my current run of employees have not seen the steam hammer run. Yes it is a boiler, Maxitherm automatic super economic dryback oil fired, I think its rated at 140HP we run it at 90PSI saturated. Havent used it since we installed the massey 5cwt. Boiler is out of cert at the moment, but that only requires a phone call to get the inspector to call and inspect it. The boiler attendant thing was one of the reasons I went away from it, I've got a cert but none of my boys had, so if the boiler was running i cold'nt leave the shop. Also it was just not economic, if we wanted to use the hammer for 1 hours work and the boiler was cold it would take an additional 1.5 hour to get up steam pressure before hand, with a massey you just press a button and away you go. One of the competition has a double arch massey 1 ton hammer down at Hexham on the hunter river, they run it with 2 really big air recievers and a bank of air compressors, (the air recievors are actually the old lancashire boilers that they used to use when they used steam). The guys that work there still reckon that they have to stop after about 30 minutes to allow the air pressure to catch up. I'll let you know when we are going to have our blacksmiths open day anyway Dale. Cheers Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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