brucegodlesky Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 If you've ever wondered about the power of Mother Nature, check out how much the freeze has lifted my hammer base. The base is 3 ft deep, bridge timbers with a layer of 8" square white ash on top. All held together with mine bolts. The hammer weighs it at over 2000# and I figger the base to be about 1000#. Reckon I shoulda sowed grass seed around it, sod thwarts the freeze. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasaino Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 yes, winter sucks. but hey! spring is trying to show up! -good luck- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 If you would have put a pebble/ sand mix bellow and around the cement pad i dought you would have that problem. Another trick is to put thick plastic sheeting around the base bellow the ground on an angle so water runs along it and falls off the sheet so to speak 4 or 5 feet away. And yes sod will help alot too, I think you can select grass seed that will have deep roots, That might be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Hill Forge Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'd say move about 200 miles further south.... that should fix the problem..:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlewolfsmithy Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Bruce, as a builder i am constantly checking freeze depths and it changes with the type of foundation, and if there is in the example of a mobile home, skirting around the piers / foundation. In your area, the normal foundation freeze depth is 36 inches, which you are at, but the table i see with your situation, pier with no skirting, is 48 inches, i believe this is why you have the frost heave. here is a link to the PA frost tables, pdf file page # 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 A couple things: Like mike said a bed of gravel to prevent the soil from holding water will make a huge difference. These are known as NFS soils. (Non Frost Susceptible) If the soil can't hold water it can't heave. As already said foundation type makes a huge difference as well. There's a reason wood isn't used as a foundation material in situations where frost is a factor. Not in modern construction anyway. Wood holds water and is itself a FS (Frost Susceptible) material. It's also laid in layers so water will infiltrate between layers and separate them as it freezes. Nobody makes bolts strong enough to keep ice from stretching them in this situation. Actually it'll just pull them through the wood. My recommendation is to excavate a couple feet at least below frost line and fill with sharp crushed rock to within two feet of the base and compact it as hard as possible with a jumping jack compactor. Do this in lifts of 10" or less. The sharp crushed gravel will key and compact without having to add fines to the aggregate design. This allows water free egress from the foundation. Next lay a geotextile over the base and pour reinforced concrete. That should do the trick. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Winter may have its problems but I would take that in preference to the bushfires in Victoria at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 I like the 200 mile south solution :-) I suspected I might experiance this problem when I dug the hole. This sets in an old crickbottom. There was 3 ft of topsoil before I hit the sandy clay. One other factor is the fact both ends of the shop are open to the north and south. The wind just howls thru there. This heave djust in the last 2 weeks. 14 days ago I used the hamme rand all wa sfine. Like I said... winter sucks Thanks guys for the observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Bruce, I can sympathise. The shop doors suffer from frost heave in the old concrete. The shed (plank runners setting on piers) doors will not open due to heave in ramp approach. Such is life. It warms up eventually. I am greatful that my hammer ( Kerrihard ) does not give me issues as yours does. Hopefully you can have that issue solved for next winter. Good luck bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divermike Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 turns out, frozen soil can exert up to 3000 lbs per square foot of pressure, when I built my front porch, the building inspector was really careful to remind me that the footers needed to go 42 inches down, so the porch did not pivot on the front of the home. Being as how I had just moved from California to upper NY, this was not foremost on my mind, My tire hammer just sits on a base dug into the soil about 10 insches, and a plate of iron about 4 inches thick. It moves a bit, but nothing crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 cant ice alone put out roughly 3000psi? well freezing water that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Man, I'm learning all sorts of things about dirt I never knew :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leland Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Boy, do I feel like a pansy...I was griping to my kid about that paper-thick layer of frost on my truck windshield this morning. I actually had to WIPE it away with a rag before driving! Winters are, like, totally brutal here in SoCal, dudes ;0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 3,000psi is more like it but more is probably. I don't have an ASHTO manual anymore so I can't give you a specific answer. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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