Black Maple Forge Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Yep. I'm on a roll! So many questions; I know! Anyway:rolleyes:, I am REALLY considering making bellows, and I wanted to know if this kind of canvas (cotton) would work for the "leather" part.100% COTTON 70 INCH WIDE 8 OZ. NATURAL CANVAS FABRIC - eBay (item 120370809678 end time Feb-08-09 10:46:49 PST)Canvas fabric, black, 100% cotton, 60"wide, per yard - eBay (item 310092365132 end time Feb-12-09 11:50:31 PST) If not, then what would be the best leather substitute?:confused: Thanks again!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribal forge Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I don't know about the canvas, we just used three different types of leather all about 3 ounce and three colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teejay Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I've built 3 bellows all with canvas used tent canvas after they were finished painted them with linseed oil , Mice don't like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maple Forge Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Leather would be great, but it gets pricy... Would something like polyester or nylon work as a bellows cover?:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Try pawn shops or Army/Navy stores to find old shelter halves (tents) or canvas tarps....there are heavy canvas and usually oil impregnated and last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 DO NOT! paint canvas with linseed oil. Linseed oil oxidized as it dries and generates heat. Frequently linseed oil soaked material will spontaneously combust. Any rags paper towel etc soaked with any vegetable oil, linseed oil is a vegetable oil made from flax seed, will do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holzkohle Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I know that oil soaked rags/other materials piled/stacked together poses a potential spontaneous combustion situation. However would a single thickness of canvas painted with linseed oil and not stacked in layers, also present a potential spontaneous combustion situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maple Forge Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 ... Everyone suggests tent canvas:(, but would nylon, polyester, or cotton work?:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 You need a material that is not porous, but will hold in the air under some pressure, and be strong enough to take the wear and tear in use. Normal cotton is not heavy enough, polyester and nylon are more flammable and light weight as well. Leather was the choice of old, that naugahide stuff might work as well, if you can find enough Naugas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilwarblacksmith Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Most of your tent canvas is cotton. One way they would waterproof it was to coat it with a thinned layer tar. They do it now with a thin layer of black latex paint. I know I'm talking waterproof, but it is also airtight, which is capable of being used on bellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Holzkohle; Check the safety forum thread about linseed oil, also linseed oil hardens like varnish I don't think it would be suitable for the flexing a bellows would give it. Perhaps disolve some bees wax in solvent and paint it on the canvas then let it dry and the solvent will evaporate leaving wax impregnated canvas. Do this in a well ventelated area of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maple Forge Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Where would be the best place to get tent canvas? Hopefully it is cheaper than leather. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Canvas drop clothes work well. You can make it air tight by dissolving wax in turpentine and spraying it on. Another method would be to simply paint the interior with a couple coats of latex rubber paint. You COULD use a trowel and spread a thin layer of silicone caulk on the interior surface too. I'd apply any of these to the inside to keep them out of contact with hot sparks, scale, smoke, UV, etc. Don't use linseed oil, it's a serious fire hazard in a couple ways. Some years ago there were tests done to see if rags with linseed oil on them could be made safe and after more than 50 washings, even using aggressive solvents they would still spontaneously combust, it just took longer. Also, even when dry it's a fine accelerant if hit with a spark or flame. Do NOT use synthetic fabrics any spark over about 300f will melt right through it on contact. Lastly, air tight is a relative term. A bellows membrane doesn't have to be absolutely air tight, dry canvas would probably work just fine. Have you ever tried to blow through canvas? Even a bed sheet will have you red in the face darned quickly. Sealing the fabric will help but it isn't essential. I'd suggest tent seam sealer but that stuff is expensive enough to seal up a tent, coating a few sq/ft of fabric for a bellows would really cost. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Frosty hit the nail squarely - "air tight" is not needed. Better to have something fairly flexible so the boards are responsive; a light canvas will work just fine. I was reading this thread and it occurred to me that an old oil-skin slicker or poncho would probably yield enough fabric and do the job. In addition, if you also mount the bellows up high, it is protected from many hazards, such as flammable gas, hot bars being swung about and sparks or embers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymm Hoffman Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Now you have many opinions. Figure out how much material you need. Those prices on eBay you posted are about as good as they will get. I rebuilt one set of bellows using untreated canvas, back in 1981. Last I knew, they were still working. The other 2 sets I have done were done in leather, both are still working. Check to see if there are any leather shops in your area that carry garment leather. That's the best material I have used, got it from a remnant table at a Tandy's Leather. It cost me $80.00, and I had leather left over. My opinion is: the best material you should try to get is garment leather. If you really can not afford the extra dollars, only then should you use the canvas. Do not bother with all those fancy treatments or painting it. If you think you need to spend the extra money and a lot of extra time treating or painting the canvas, you probably could have spent the extra money on garment leather. Have patience and save your money to buy the better product. Don't get into a rush and use cheap stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 There is also something called "bellows cloth" that is used to repair the bellows in pump parlor organs (those piano like things that people used to have). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maple Forge Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 :cool:Thanks for all the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Go to Lowe's and check out the best grade of painter's tarp. There will be two or three differnet weights of canvas, but the heaviest is some good stuff. 10oz canvas drop cloth at Lowes.com It's 100% cotton. I use it for everything. Good price, too. Don Edited February 2, 2009 by Don A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firegnome Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I wonder if old army navy surplus parachute would work very light weight and it has to hold air or else. Firegnome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 just don't let any sparks or hot metal touch it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Mulholland - Tetnum Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 i mad mine with naugahide off the remnant rack ant a fabric store it harldy leaks and was under 15$ for a 3x4 bellows and works well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Nakkela Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Guess nobody wants to do like my Grampa done. He saved the hides from cattle he butchered and then he tanned the leather to make the bellows. Worked well. Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironrosefarms Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 A couple military shelter halves would be more than enough for most bellows projects. Though I would prefer a heavier grade than that. I would stay away from any synthetic material due to their combustibility and the fact that they will become brittle as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironrosefarms Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) double post Edited February 3, 2009 by ironrosefarms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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