Dave Budd Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I've been asked to make some chisels for a local stone mason (sculptural carving). They mostly use a hard limestone,. but occasionally granite as well. I'm thinking for best results they should use seperate chisels for each rock (that way I can temper them differently ) The chisels will be hand tools and struck with a hammer, so not jack hammer bits. My question is then, what type of steel would be best for making chisels from? thanks dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech413 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I know a smith that makes stone facing chisels and he uses H13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The best for basalt and granite are o1 and d2 steels ror basalt the d2 is tougher and you may get 60-62 hrc if properly heat treated and tempered. The forging temp' mast be acc to the ''book'' and one must olso normalise befor the treatmernt. The h13 will never come to hrc 60 . It is better to do all the heat treatment and normalising in a n electric furnece with good temp control. You may see the ''carving tools'' of noam angel in the membewr gallery they are made of d2 hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hi Dave, You will need to make roughing and finishing chisels I would think, Ball end for striking on, and heat treat to suit material, What size are you considering making ? What quantities do you need ? You should be able to purchase octagonal Chisel steel from Woodberry Chilcott or similar supplier. Alternatively get a good old Kango bit and use that, heat treat as required these should be easily acquired around your neck of the woods. Depending on what sizes and amounts you need I may be able to help you out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 thanks for teh replies guys. I wondered about H13, but I thought that O1 and D2 may be too brittle for stone carving? I've been meaning to try forging D2 for ages, but haven't liked the thought of the hardness of working (no power hammer). But if that is the best thing to use, then I may have to find ways around it John, I'm planing to copy the esisting tools and then as the carvers ask for other styles I can work from there. Most of them are made from 3/4" octagonal bar, so that's where I was going to start. As I have Peter Randall-Page (and his team of carvers) a hundred yards down the road I expect I will have as many chisels to make as I want, which considering I don't have a power hammer won't be too many! Still likely to be making/reworking 100 a year I should think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 There is a guy posting in the sword section that claims to cut stones with his sword, maybe ask him to borrow it? Once again I must apologize but I could not hold this lame comment in any longer, I just had to say it :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I thought a cold chisel was quenched only an inch or 2 from the cutting edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 There are many methods to heat treat an item. Tip hard shaft and striking end soft. If one chooses differential hardening or differential tempering, it will make a good chisel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Hi Dave, "Still likely to be making/reworking 100 a year I should think? " You can't be making them right then. Octagonal bar should be fine, and a proper made chisel should last for years The softer materials tend to wear chisels more than the harder ones, try a few different tempers under field conditions for the best result rather than making them all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Element, this is Masonry chisel application which is a specific application, used with a maul so it is being "worked" at both ends. Each end having need of specific properties to do the job intended so heat treated accordingly. As a general rule, when making an item, the purpose it is to be used for determines the materials required and the form of the item being made, any decoration or embellishment can be then added to "pretty it up" Some may be incorporated in the basic design to fulfil a function (IE grooves could be used as grips) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 to be honest John, I haven't made any yet. I've reforged the tips and heat treated a couple of dozen for them in the past, but the steels vary so much that I wanted to start from scratch (ie a known steel that once I have found the best temper for I can repeat). I only conjured a number from my head based on the fact that I was told they buy boxes of the things and there are at least a dozen blokes locally who will want tools if I can make them. The tool will last years, but the tips ware away and need to be redressed occasionally (also they are likely to screw the temper when they badly regrind them, so leaving me more work to do when it comes to drawig out the tips) The plan is to get some steel (whatever variety looks most likely to perform the best) and make some chisels up based on the one that they have, but with a variety of tempers. Then they will be tested out by the people who will use them. Don't forget I used to be a scientist Since these guys don't like throwing tools away when the tips are worn, if I can make chisels for them that I can rework easily (and don't cost too much initially), then I will have plenty of repeat business literally on my doorstep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 A lot of the chisels the masons use are just that "Throw away tips", I would suggest not copying what they have, (which may only be what is commercially available) but talk with them and come up with the right designs/specifications for what they need, let them try the prototype and then go from there. You wil need differing ones for different applications, by talking you can establish widths, lengths, shapes, weights, materials they will be using them on, what tools will be used in conjunction with them, and any other pertinent facts. If you make the right tool that performs well, the price to the craftsman will be secondary, don't sell your self and your skills short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devon blacksmith Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hi Dave I am just up the road from you well just north of Exeter and have three power hammers that I let local smiths use if you would like to come over and have a look you would be welcome most of the stone masons that I work with use a company up the road http://http://www.averyknight.co.uk/construction-engineering/stonemasons-tools-materials.html might give you an idea of what's about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aspery Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Have you thought about plain old W2 steel? Plenty around - not too expensive - water hardened -Rockwell C 60 at 500 Degrees F temper - easy to forge (within forging range) 'Hand Chisel' is listed on the 'Uses' section Try this link Diehl Steel - W-2 Water Hardening Tool Steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Mark, nice suggestion but W2 is not as common over here by a long way. I thought i would see what's about, even though there are lots of steel that would be good enough, but I want to make the best I can Dean, I would love to come and have a look at your place, thanks The use of a power hammer would be very much appreciated from time to time too The mason in the village who has been asking me says that he personally doesn't like the tipped chisels and the idea of renewable tools is always appealing to craftsmen. I've got to put a steel order in soon anyway and I thought that I cuold get a couple of lengths of something suitable put on the order. I quite fancy D2 for other things as well, but the stiffness in a 3/4" or 1" section is less than appealing decisions decisions :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I know that you're going to think that i'm nuts. But the guy that hand carved these rocks makes all of his chisels from pole barn nails. He gets them to the shape that he wants, then heats them red and quenches in old motor oil. Check the pix on these links.More Rock Carvings - Blacksmith Photo GalleryRock Carvings - Blacksmith Photo Gallery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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