need advice on raplacement for 50# lil gi

[wolf mtn]

I had a dollar in my pocket, bought a 50# LG. Due to changing my shop path I would like to get a differnent hammer. I learned on a 25# hammer but have been lookin into treadle, helve, or small air hammer. Mine is too big for what I need. Could I get some insight from u folks on which direction to go without spending big $ on something I don't need. Thanks.

[mike-hr]

I've never heard anyone wish for a smaller hammer before.. I have an 80 pound mechanical hammer, It will work down to 3/8 stock real easy. What are you making? Have you watched the video series by Clifton Ralph? He does all kinds of stuff with little giant-type hammers. Perhaps you just need to fiddle with die height adjustments, etc to get a lighter kiss on small stock.

[dablacksmith]

hum.... a 50 lb lg isnt a big hammer.... i had one for years and was looking for bigger at the time.. an air hammer is more controlable generally.. ive not messed with a treadle or helve depends on what type of work you are doing .. what type of product are you makeing? what type size of stock are you useing? are you useing lots of dies or are you useing a hammer to draw steel out?what you might need to do is change the dies and set up a brake on the lg...good luck!

[SGropp]

You can do small work on a big hammer, but not big work on a small hammer.
The footprint of a 50 # LG isn't too much bigger than the 25 if lack of space is the problem.
It sounds as if you need to get the hammer tuned up and adjusted properly with a good brake.

[wolf mtn]

Thanks SG, I bought this hammer from a university art department. they had rebuilt it w/ new blocks and babbitts. The foot print isn't the problem i have, 1 it's 3phase, don't have that much electric in the barn, air compressor is also, 2 being disabled, the base seems like too much of an undertaking for me to handle. trying to do everything myself with out hiring out, and 3 I keep hearing about hammers that don't need such a base. Saw a man in VA. put his air hammer on the lawn and pounded up to 1 1/2 all day without needing a base. Are you familiar with the ontario artist blacksmith Dave Robertsons hammer?

[Jymm Hoffman]

The Say Mak sold by Ozark School of Blacksmithing (Tom Clark's) is the way to go, they run on single phase and offer control and service that is great!
My last post: http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f57/pattison-100lb-8697/
Look under my name and you will find other posts regarding this hammer. There are also some owners in New York that will probably let you try theirs, as I did, before buying. I can do anything on my Say Mak 50 kg. that you can do on a 50 or even 25 pound Little Giant. But you can not do on the 50lb. Lg that I can do on 50 kg. I can forge 1/4" round stock into nail shanks without a problem. I bought the first one to help me forge 1" square into nails for canons. I had custom dies and made the other tooling to do this job, over 2,000 for one order. I demonstrated this for Tom at SOFA'S Quad State Round Up last September, as well as at the 1st. Great Lakes International Iron Fest. Photos are posted on their website.
If you can't find someone in your area and willing to drive to the Pittsburgh area, you are welcome to try both of my hammers, 50kg and 60 kg.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Jymm Hoffman

[Jamesrjohnson]

If you are looking for more control and hitting power, you have to look at self contained air hammers. I started with a 50 lb lg hammer and still have it, but most of my work is now done on an Anyang 33 or 88 pounder in my shop. If you look at my work on James Johnson Metalsmith, you will see a combination of heavy texturing of steel and copper. On my flowers that require vaining, I made two Hofi style (double crown) dies. I have tried this die style on many other hammers and it is very easy crack the copper with too heavy of a hit... so controllability is absolutely essential, especially using sharp dies and softer metals (like copper). The right hammer for you has to be based on the type of work you do. A great all around machine is an Anyang 33. it offers all the control you need as well as hitting power (my Anyang 33 packs as much or more punch as my LG 50).

[Dave Leppo]

Blacksmith Power Hammers - Iron Kiss Hammers, LLC.

[ThomasPowers]

" it's 3 phase" ahh no the current motor is 3 phase and can be easily and not too expensively switched out to a single phase motor. Note that many of these powerhammers were run off of a line shaft and so don't care *what* spins them

Base: I've know a lot of smiths running that size hammer on a bit of cribbing on a standard garage floor with no issues. I ran a 50# mechanical hammer on a brick floor with no cribbing for hobby use and had no problems.

[SGropp]

Having any type of power hammer on a proper foundation will make a real difference in forging effectiveness, regardless of how the ram is propelled, air, mechanical or a football team.

[SGropp]

If your disability makes it hard to run any kind of power hammer with the standard foot treadle, perhaps you should set it up with a electric Variable Frequency Drive to stop ,start and control the speed and power of the blows. These can be run with the same kind of remote foot ,hand or thumb operated controller as a TIG welder. These also generate 3 phase output from single phase input, so the motor you have might work.
I don't think this is a very cheap route to go as it takes a skilled electrician and some spendy parts to get set up right.
I've only seen one hammer set up to run like this and the owner was really pleased with how it ran. The jury is still out in my mind ,however, on whether it is worth the expense and trouble.
Anybody out there have any experience along this line? I know Striker offers a range of VFDs for their hammers .

[Krush]

Wolf Mtn
i have a David Robertson hammer, while it is not an industrial hammer it is built very well and gobbles up the steel very well. works good with different tooling as well. it doesnt require a substantial base to use but it will definitely keep most of the energy going into the workpiece and you will get more bang for your buck with it having the base

[james gonzalez]

Hi Wolf Mtn.
-A mechanical forging hammer wants to be firmly anchored otherwise it will walk around and you will have to chase it with your hot bar. The anchoring method specified in the original technical sheet that came with this hammer is not necessarily the only way to go. I do not know your shop's floor material so I cannot make a suggestion there.
-Talking about wanting a smaller hammer indicates to me that you are having control issues. As SG suggested, a brake is really a MUST on mechanical hammers of this type if you expect any kind of real controlled forging.
-as for the three phase problem, If you have single phase 220v available in your shop a rotary or static phase converter could solve the problem for both the hammer and your three phase compressor. three phase motors are real simple and last a long time. they are cheaper to replace or repair when they do go too.
-I have owned two Little Giant #50 hammers in the past. I found them a little weak for my needs and I now run a striker#88. With this machine I have managed to controllably forge 1/4 square.

[steveh]

i priced a VFD to run the 4kw 3 phase motor for my Anyang 88lber and it was $441 Canadian,plus probably 2hr for installation around $130.i thought it was reasonable.

[wolf mtn]

Not having any control isses, brake is great. tough decision to sell bigger equipment to get smaller equipment in order to spread self and money thinner. in turn will get equipment to accept a specific job. thanks everyone