Matt in NY Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I heard that the work area should be a triangle, hearth, anvil and vise. I'm thinking I want the anvil and the vise as close to the hearth as possible since I doubt I'll be going from anvil to vise much (will I?). So, I'm thinking more of a right triangle with the hearth at the apex and the back open. Is this a common set up? If different why? Am I missing anything? I'm working on setting up and don't want to redo things too much due to simple things that I missed. I have had my anvil for 2 months and have yet to work with it. Some may find that hard to comprehend, but I have been working toward this for 40 years so I can wait. I'm trying to get all my other jobs done before winter. I've got a few animals to get in the freezer and some downed trees to cut to managaeble size and drag home. Just built a new sheep shack from all free stuff. I figured if I was taking over their former quarters it was the least I could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teejay Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 You are basically setting up a work cell, Time studies in a machine shop work cell shows a circle works the best.My forging area is set that way going clockwise is forge,vise,anvil power hammer , swedge block no more than 2 to 3 steps to any one thing .The less distance traveled saves time and having to take an extra heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 You are basically setting up a work cell, Time studies in a machine shop work cell shows a circle works the best.My forging area is set that way going clockwise is forge,vise,anvil power hammer , swedge block no more than 2 to 3 steps to any one thing .The less distance traveled saves time and having to take an extra heat. Just how fast does the hunk of steel cool? I can't believe an extra step would make that much difference. Of course though I really don't know I have never done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teejay Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 If you are working something small and thin like leaves or fredricks crosses out of 1/8 sq. it loses the heat very quick. Fast enough that the extra step does count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I got ya, never thought about thin metal objects, that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aspery Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I like to have the bick or horn of the anvil pointed away from the forge. This allows for a blacksmith to work completely around the bick (such as chamfering an eye) without the tongs or the steel interfering with the forge. Otherwise I'm with the triangle theory - actually more of a pentagon with power hammer and swage block added to the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aspery Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 One more thought with anvil orientation. If you plan to punch holes in bars (and you probably do) orient the anvil so that the ambient light falls evenly on either side of the punch as you hold the steel. If you end up with a strong light source on one side of the bar, you will tend to punch your holes off-center and that can lead to much gnashing of teeth and sharp intakes of breath! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) Size of the cell is dependant on size of the work as well. Big difference in the work area where you are swinging 20' long 1" sq stock around and one where you are working a 10" knife blade. If you will be doing a bunch of different things try to make it so you can shift things around. At least one smith I know had different sized work areas on opposite sides of his forge so he could work big or little by what side he stood on. I often go from anvil to vise to true up a piece before going back into the forge, esp for removing a twist---and vise versa as after twisting in the vise I will go to the anvil and straighten it up with a wooden hammer before putting the piece back into the forge. Edited November 20, 2008 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divermike Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 One of my forgemasters showed me a little step saving trick, he keeps a chunk of flat steel, about 2 inches thick, and 4X4 square, right next to his forge, when he is dealing with small pieces, especially forge welding, he does not even take one step, just moves the piece from the fire onto his "little anvil" and does it there. I took a square topped stake, and set it into a stump right next to my forge, and it works great. I have a big square design in my shop, which also incorporates my big quench tub, my vice is 3 full steps away from my anvil, but only 2 from the forge, whatever way you do it, it likely will be changed over time till you are fully satisfied. I'm on my 4th shop revision, and still thinking of better ways to set it up. Good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 My current bladesmithing set up is a square O with the top consisting of a work bench with a slab of soapstone (old laboratory bench top) on top of it for the propane forge and hot things to be placed on it with the small postvise on the right hand corner. Moving clockwise to the right hand bar are the anvils and the cone mandrel and a gap to enter in. (anvils are on a large bridge baulk and then travel anvil stands ligned up with the baulk), The bottom bar is a smaller workbench with the large postvise on it and my wall of shame damaged anvil collection and a pile of postvises to help keep the bench in place Left hand bar is the hammer rack/tong rack/tooling rack This all fits in an appx 10' x 10' square All this will change when get the shop extension built and I get power to my shop and have the triphammer online again. Actually the extension will have the coal forges and be set up for heavier "dirty" work, welding (arc and forge), grinding, and the old shop will retain the gasser and have the screw press moved closer to the forge for clean work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crij Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Since I am usually out demonstrating when I forge, I have found setting up in a 135-180 degree arc works the best for me and my Champion 400. Not sure how I would set up my shop when I find a spot. Usually I set up with the forge to my left, anvil between me and the public and the vise to the right. This seems to work the best for me since I am always turning the same direction to get to the work surface. Though with my other forge, a ratchet pawl oblong buffalo, then usually the forge was up front with the anvil to one side and the vise to the other, but that was just because everyone was mesmerized with the working of the forge. The problem I had with the Buffalo setup was that I would catch myself acting like a sprinkler when I needed to use the vise (start to turn one way and then remember the vise was on the other side) The other thing I disliked with this setup was that if I needed to straighten a twist against the stump, I would have to spin further to finish it, where as my current method the stump is along the path back to the fire. Just an opinion for what it is worth. Rich C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crij Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) double posted, Sorry, Rich C. Edited November 20, 2008 by crij Double posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The triangle work area is used mostly for setting up kitchens where economy of motion counts. It is a good system for hot work as well as economy of motion means less heat loss. That said the entire area does not need to be on the same triangle, they can be nested or build of each other. With a number of hot work tools and equipment in close proximity the overall look will be circular. However if you draw straight lines between elements you'll see the triangles. Also, when the term "step/pace" is used such as the anvil should be no more than one step or pace from the forge, a "step/pace" is both feet, not one foot or about 6'. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Leppo Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Jack Andrews, in The New Edge of the Anvil said that when he worked over a dirt floor, he would sweep the floor smooth in the morning, and by the end of the day he would have created a motion study of footprints in the loose dirt. He includes a diagram of tool usage based on this data; page 9. This will vary with the type of work you are doing. I suppose if you have a hard floor and are not too anal, you could sprinkle dust over it and work over that.New Edge of the Anvil: A Resource ... - Google Book Search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primtechsmith Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 this is my set up... Peyton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J W Bennett Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) My main forging station has a gas and a coal forge standing side by side. Then going around counterclockwise the power hammer, the 165# anvil, a 5" post vise with it's own stand, Swedge block with stand, small heavy layout table with another 5" post vise, 303# anvil and then a qeunch tank made from an old beer keg back next to the coal forge. The oil quench tank and the wood box with sand are tucked under the gas forge stand.everything is with in a step and a half ....close at hand. both anvils the layout table, the vise stand and both forges have lots of rails,brackets, pockets to hang hammers, hardies,tongs, swages and various other implements of destruction. I hate not having what I need handy when I finally decide to do something;) Also this is an arrangement that is very fluid depending on current needs. John Edited November 21, 2008 by JWBIRONWORKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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