Has anybody made doorhandles? This type (image from internet foe illuatration purpose)

How to make the square so it fits over the shaft?

My idea was to drill to size and than with square drift make to size and shape. 

But the hole does not continue, so will that work?

Thanks.

 

Yes i have. Put threads on the square rod. Drill and tap the handles. The threads on the square rod only need to be on the corners of the rod. Then cross drill and tap the handles for a set screw. I used 1/4" square rod, knocked the corners down till they fit in the die, then threaded them. 

They are kind of hard to find here but you can buy replacement rods for old door knobs and handles that are made like that. The ones i found were a bit pricey so i made my own. 

Best pic i could get. 

The handle.

And the hole in the handle is round?

Yep, a round hole in the handle.  It threads onto the rod, and the set screw locks it in place.  This is probably obvious, but when you thread the rod, the die needs to be bigger than the stock thickness - -maybe a 5/16 die on 1/4 square (or an 8mm die on 6mm square, I guess).

It is possible to drift blind holes square, at least if you can drill a hole somewhat deeper than the square section you need.  But it's kind of tricky (and the threaded square rod was once pretty universal, at least on this side of the Atlantic).

An easy cheat is to measure corner to corner of the male threaded square you need, buy or swage round stock to slightly larger, thread it, grind it square and chase the threads. EZ PZ Hmmmm?

Thread it into a round hole and lock it with a set screw. 

Of course that's just how I'd do it, I could be wrong.

Frosty The Lucky.

Here the rods are square and have 2 groves in the center of 2 sides or a dimple with holes or a cut

You lock the handle with a setscrew or older ones with a pin (or nail or ...)

No threat, exept in de handle for the setscrew. But that is the easy part.

2 handles on the door, and that holds everything in place 

And I thought it was just the drain traps that were different 

To make a blind square hole, I'd start with a drill with a diameter maybe 15 or 20% larger than the square rod, and drill it as deep as you can get away with.  I'd then grind a short taper on a piece of stock the same size as the rod, heat up the handle, and drive it in.  If needed, you could then go to another square "drift" with just a chamfer on the end to deepen the square section.  

I think I've only done this once, and ended up with a tapered hole, since the part I'd already drifted stretched further as I continued to drive the drift.  But you can always forge the sides back in.

Would that be easier than just broaching the hole to accept the handle?

Frosty The Lucky.

Frosty than you have a hole all the way thru?

Mike i had that idea as well. Only i was planning on drilling smaller to the square, not bigger. But i will do some tests on a piece.

Maybe Frosty can expand on his thought.  Commercially, a hardened cutting tool (broach) would be forced into the blind hole to cut away the material in the corners of the square.  I've thought about making one to use in my fly press, but that seems like a lot of work for a one-off handle (and I don't have a firm sense of what it would take to make it successful.)

Broaching just came to mind but you're right it may be more trouble than it's worth. I inherited a couple hundred lbs of lathe cutters from my Father and there were boxes of carbide inserts with a counter sunk screw hole in the center. I've drilled and tapped a hole in the end of a bar to attach one for a broach and shimmed as I worked a number of times. 

These carbide inserts may not even be available anymore. 

I think I'd just use a square needle file to make a round hole accept a square pin. What I call a needle file may be a defunct term too IDK. Basically, the smallest square file that will fit. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Yes the holes are round. 

One thing i did not mention you will need a bottoming tap. One can be made easily by grinding off the end of a standard tap up to the lead threads. 

The anatomy of a broach is kind of specific. It would be tapered smaller on the "struck" end than the cutting end and is concaved on the cutting end to allow chip clearance. If i were to attempt the broach method i would try it cold on a hydraulic press. 

Frosty, yes those are still available. We usually use the insert type for cutting keyways though. For square holes or socket cap (allen) we still use a solid HSS tool. 

It would be for a series of 10pieces (5 doors). Filing would work but no thanks.

Will look broaching blind holes. Because the shaft is standard so it will not be a waste of a tool.

The tool you will be looking for is called a "rotary broach". Keep in mind that the deeper the hole the larger the shank will need to be. The manufacturer of the broach will be able to tell you which one you need to get the hole the depth you desire. And i would definitely buy one rather than try and make one. However, the real down side is that broach is going to cost ~$100US.  They are usually made of M2 or equivalent HSS and of course heat treated. So make sure that you are wearing your PPE becuase when something like that breaks it can come apart like a bullet.  I have had to dig out more than one piece of broken tool embedded in my flesh before. Not fun doing minor surgery on the shop floor. Which is another reason i would not use carbide, HSS is much more forgiving. 

One other thing i just thought of. If you broach the hole you are going to have to pay VERY close attention to orientation. The broached handles are made on a machine that has been dialed in so that every single one comes off exactly the same. The hole in the lock or latch are all done exactly the same. So when installed the handles will be perpendicular to the door frame. If your holes are off just a bit they will be at an angle, may not look so bad on a single door but if you have double doors it would stick out like a sore thumb. 

 

Good info. Thanks.

Well you would not see it, there is a door between. But you would feel it.

But yes orientation is very important

And google ads are reading, all of a sudden I get ads of HAAS

Neat tool, thanks Billy. It took me quite a while to find a video showing how the things work, most were promotionals for a brand without any substance to how they work. Gooder than other brands does NOT count.

I did locate a rotary broach test video for DB Customs and at least I know how they work. I can't say much for the fellow doing the test, maybe he didn't have or read the instructions. 

One egregious safety violation I'd like to warn new guys about in the video is when he used an air hose to clear cuttings from the hole. Sure he used a rag or paper towel to sort of shield it but the bottom of the hole was still wide open. If this is a standard practice in his shop he's lucky he can see with both eyes. IF he can.

In his defense the rotary broach was sent to him to test and demonstrate on camera so I can excuse his inexperience with the tool. 

Personally I'd be tempted to experiment with a version of a coping chisel made to cut steel for a limited run. I'm thinking it'd take a few hundred parts to reach break even on the price of the one in the video I watched.

I have an old hammer drill in the shop made to drill masonry that has a setting for hammer only, no rotation. I'd LOVE to see how that one worked in the old "clamp your hand drill in it" bench top "drill press." Another take it all or nothing deal at a yard sale maybe 15 years ago. It actually worked amazingly well clamped horizontally to my 50lb. Little Giant to drill and tape holes to mount the brake I put on it. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Very cool, especially with the video Frosty found.  I'd heard the term "rotary broach," but I think I had it mixed up with annular cutter.  (Or maybe penannular brooch?)

I think I'm glad didn't try a broach for my flypress.  On the other hand, I may have an excuse to waste a hundred hours building another accessory for my 7X10 . . .

Like i said earlier as well, i would use a hydraulic press to try this on. These tool are hardened and DO NOT like being struck. 

I feel the need to add this:

*** as a professional machinist i do not encourage anyone to use this tool in this manner due to safety issues*** 

-----------

When i am slow in the tool room at work i will sometimes go out on the floor and run production. One of the machines i run is a HAAS VF-2SS. Pretty cool machine, only does 3 axis but holds 31 tools and changes the tool in about a second and a half. Unfortunately the pallet changer takes almost 2 minutes to change the pallet. (pallet being a set of vices, usually 4-6,  holding the work on a table ready to go in and replace the one in the machine)In the world of high speed machining 2 minutes is an eternity. If i had an extra $65K laying around there would be one in my shop at home. 

HAAS has a whole bucket load of free training videos both on their website and on youtube. Everything from how to read a ruler to how to program the machine. Some of the ones on youtube are just glorified ads for their tooling though. 

The hardest part about using a broach is getting it indicated in. Davenport has a training video on how to set up and run a broach on youtube. I do not know if posting would violate terms and conditions so instead, if you go to youtube and type in "davenport 5 spindle broaching" you will find it pretty quick. It is an old video probably filmed back in the 80's so the quality is not great but the info is there. 

Frosty, here is something that may blow your mind. When i am running a Davenport we tap right handed threads by spinning the tap left. The tap and the work spindle both turn the same direction. Say the work is turning at 1000 RPMs, the tap will turn at 500 RPMs, when the tap gets to depth the tapping unit shifts gears and turns at 1500 RPMs overrunning the work and backing itself out. 

That seems like an overcomplicated way to tap a hole on first blush but if the goal is to do everything without stopping it makes perfect sense. I get relative motion. It's fun to visualize the operation, might have to search out the video see how close they are.

Frosty The Lucky.

Billy do you think a rotary broach will work in a drillpress?

One of the Davenports i usually run runs 17,000 parts in a 10hr shift, average is ~7500 a shift on most jobs. So yeah, you run them with out stopping. We have been running that job, the 17K one, for the past 6 years that i know of 20 hours a day. What anyone would need that many parts for is beyond me. 

Gewoon, that would depend on how strong you are and the quality of the drill press. But no i do not think so. Basically you are trying to run 4 chisels down at once. And that is going to take a lot of force. 

Edit: Gewoon, you are not thinking that the tool will be turning are you? I am just a bit confused. But if so, no it will not be. When i use one the work is also turning, so relative to the broach and the work they are stationary. Unless you can spin the work, handle in this case, the same speed as the broach it will just make a round hole until it overheats and quits cutting. 

I watched a couple of those videos Billy and they're interesting once you find one without the sales guy. He detracts from the machinery on mute!

Neat machines but I couldn't find the feed wheels in any of the videos.

Frosty The Lucky.

Just to throw it out there, a practical solution might be to make the "socket" part separately with a through-hole and braze it onto the back of the handle.  If you're going for the clean lines in the original photo, you could drill a hole in the body of the handle with a diameter equal to the diagonal dimension of the shank, and braze on maybe a 1/4" thick disk with a square hole.

(I thought I had gathered that one could use a rotary broach in a lathe with the work and cutting bit spinning, and the body (broach holder?) stationary in the tailstock.  Or you could spin the body in a mill and fix the work in a vise, with cutting bit not rotating.)

Yeah, the idea was keeping the handle fixed and "drilling" the square.

And also, i do have access to a lathe, but it is only the lathe. The pallet with all the tools, chucks, spanners, ... got lost  

Maybe I will ask a machineshop what it will cost me. Could be cheaper than the tool (probably need it twice, because I destroy one)

I would go back to my original suggestion of drill and tap. I just did a quick looksie and you can get threaded rods from amazon for between $6-10USD. Search for "threaded door knob spindle". That is much cheaper than when i did my doors here at home. I think they were ~$15 each then. 

A machine shop will provably want to mill them out which will leave radiused corners. 

Both have their pros and cons. Threaded is much easier and cheaper to do at home and you do not have to worry about orientation of the holes, they will however loosen over time and need adjusted from time to time. Machined will give a tighter fit and stay better, but much harder to do at home and much more costly to contract out. 

Going a little on Mike's suggestion, drill all the way through, punch the square hole, then plug weld the hole closed.