Hi y'all,

I'll start with some context. I'm a newish blacksmith. Taken 60ish hours of classes in forging and metalworking. I'm primarily a furniture maker and am setting up a forge to be able to make custom hardware and tools. I have a $500 grant I received for getting a gas forge setup. I don't have a lot of time to devote to building a forge and probably lack a number of the tools necessary. I'm thinking I would like to buy something pre-built but it seems like most of the forges in my price range are inefficient and/or poorly built or don't get up to welding temps well. I'm considering ordering one of these propane tank forge bodies from eBay. 

 like they have 2" of blanket insulation rather than the 1" standard for most cheaper forges. My first question do you all see anything wrong or concerning about those? Second question is if I go with that do you have any suggestions for pre-built burners I could buy to finish the build? I'll include some links to ones I've found on ebay and Etsy. I'm not sure how to evaluate if they're good or junk. For that forge body would you all suggest one burner or two? Thanks for any help!

 

Burner links: Removed

 

Edited November 10, 20241 yr by Mod30
Remove commercial links per TOS

Welcome aboard Rose, glad to have you. We can't render an opinion of the burners or forges you ask about. The rules against posting links to commercial sites is strictly enforced. The way to ask these questions is to name and describe the forge and the site you found it on. For example, two burner Diamond forge as seen on the smoky forge site. Or Ebay, etc. just no direct links. 

The minimum tool list isn't very long to build an effective forge/burner. A drill press, reciprocating saw, hand drill and pop rivet gun with some basic tools is all you really need. Honest they're EZ PZ.

Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome from the Ozark Mountains.

If you let us know your general location, you may be surprised how many members are within visiting distance from you. Have you given any thought into using a solid fuel forge like coal or charcoal? there is a good thread about building a JABOD (Just a box of dirt) forge and it may do what you want. We have both propane and coal forges and I prefer the coal while my wife likes the propane we built.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.~ Semper Paratus

 

Good Morning Rose,

Please put your locale in your Avatar. Then we will know how to answer your question. Welcome to this Forum, there is a ginormous amount of useful knowledge here.

The New Forge people get caught up in 'Must get to Welding heat'. The reality is, you probably will not NEED Welding Heat, except for some unusual cases. The other reality is, most production Forges can get to 'Welding Heat', it just takes getting used to the Forge and it's adjustments. A Camp Fire on the beach will get to 'Welding temperature' if it is built correctly.

Most of us start out with 'One' Forge, thinking it will be the correct Forge for 'All' applications. This is the farthest thing from the Truth, you will find you want to make a change to a different size Forge, 'SMALLER'!!!!  Don't get caught up in the thought that you NEED a long 3 or 4 burner Forge. Start out with a 'Pile of Bricks' Forge. You DON'T NEED high temperature fire brick, they are fragile and break up with regularity. The cost doesn't reward durability!!  K.I.S.S. is the Teacher of the Truth. I have been Forging for over 60 years, my Forge of choice is a single burner Propane. It starts easy, it is easy to manage and maintain, It is easy to shut-down, It is easy to move back inside after you are done for the day.

I know of a lady who lives within a half hour from me, who makes Damascus Jewelry in her Kitchen/House!!

Priority Number ONE!! Take Care of YOU!! A byproduct of a Propane Forge is Carbon Mon-Oxide, It can KILL YOU!! It is the Silent Killer!! Next on your List of Taking Care of You is Safety!! Eye and Hearing protection, NEVER WEAR SYNTHETIC CLOTHING!! Synthetic clothing melts into like a glue, it sticks to your skin and continues to burn you!!

Other than that and a couple more important things, It is a Cake Walk!!  LOL Enjoy the Journey!!

Neil

Hi all thanks for your responses. I'm in Western WA on the peninsula. A coal forge is a no go as they get shut down during the summer with burn bans here. Additionally my shop is basically a garage in large commercial warehouse building. I have a big roll-up door so ventilation for a propane forge right in front of the door should be fine.

Heard on the links. I'm going to include photos of what I'm considering and search terms to find their listings if anyone wants to take a look. I'm leaning towards this getting this propane tank forge body and one of the burncraft burners

In order:

Propane tank forge on ebay

Propane gas forge burner on eBay

Gas propane forge burner by burncraft on etsy

To skip to the bottom line, a Diamondback single burner propane forge is the only commercial forge worth owning in your price range. I believe you will find it perfect for your needs. You will find this forge gets hot enough, and more to the point, it is made to last. Could you do better? Yes, but only by spending a lot of time learning how to build your own burner and forge. I don't think you want to spend that kind of time on a peripheral tool, right? And if you change your mind later on about how deeply you want to delve into metal work, the Diamondback forge can be easily upgraded, with the latest burner design.

I would have suggested a Mister Volcano forge, as giving by far the most bang for the buck, but you are not likely to find one for sale, anymore.

By the way, all the photos you posted, both of burners and of a forge shell, are second rate choices, which will utterly disappoint; just don't go there.

 

Ewww, those are awful burners.  You see lots of those long list of mistakes being sold online. Stay away from those! 

Ditto Mike's suggestion, Diamond back single is a fine forge and the burners work well.

Frosty The Lucky.

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Diamond back single is a fine forge and the burners work well.

Yes, their burners do work well. I would not want to leave the impression that they are not sufficient. Of course, being such a picky butt, I will always want just that little bit more...

You and me both Mike but we aren't speculating between us. The OP asked about a decent quality starter forge and as is normal for people breaking into a craft was looking at a much too large forge and pitiful burners.

I even stopped myself from delving into flame faces and kiln washes. Once the hook is set eh? 

Frosty The Lucky.

Well thanks y'all I'm gonna pull the trigger on the diamond back 1 burner blacksmith forge. Seems simple and will be nice to just have a tool that works without having to read a book on burners just to get started. And having that larger side door will be handy. Some of the projects I have planned are awkward shapes.  

Anyone know if diamond back has black Friday sales that are worth waiting for?

Are you looking at the Diamondback, Series 3 single burner, (blacksmiths) forge? It looks like a decent forge, the through ports on the side will come in handy for heating the center of long stock. This is an excellent feature

I  haven't been to their site in quite a while and am going to add a couple things to your buy list.

#1 is buy or make rigidizer, all the pics I've looked at on their site show bare ceramic wool refractory liners and I don't see one word about them using one of the "safe" types. Admittedly I haven't searched the site but sealing refractory wool is WAY TOO IMPORTANT to not do or at least mention. 

Once rigidized it needs a layer of hard refractory as armor against snagging or gouging it at high temp. It also provides a hard barrier to protect the blanket from damage.

What happens to refractory ceramic blanket insulation when it comes to forging temperatures is it vitrifies, becomes brittle and fibers break off to float around in YOUR breathable air. These tiny ceramic needles become lodged in your lungs and can NOT be dissolved out the way the junk we breath normally is. 

After a while having very many of these little barbs lodged in your aviole can cause mesothelioma like cancers. This is a B A D thing.

Rigidizer is simply colloidal silica mixed with clean fresh water and a few drops of food coloring. After wetting the refractory wool (buttering) you spritz the wool thoroughly, the food coloring will show how much and where you've covered the blanket. Lastly you cure the rigidizer by bringing it to red heat, lighting the burner works nicely just don't get too carried away. This melts the silica where it collected at intersections of ceramic blanket fibers locking them in place. This makes this blanket physically more rigid while at the same time helping prevent broken fibers from floating into your breathable.

The hard refractory flame face is confusing, there have been so many people use "refractory" CEMENT that everybody is using the term. Cement or mortar is intended to stick, bricks, tiles, rocks, etc. together and "refractory mortar" works a treat so long as it doesn't have a propane flame impinging on it. typical forging temps break mortar flame faces down rather quickly.

My preference for a flame face refractory is, "Kastolite-30-li." It's a water setting, high alumina bubble refractory. Water setting means that once you mix it with water it sets like concrete. Neither "dry" the water forms bonds with the calcites on a molecular level. The alumina component is in part what makes the calcites remain bonded with water at much higher temperatures than portland cement does. Alumina is also very resistant to the chemical erosion borax based forge welding fluxes cause to silica based stuff, ceramic blanket, bricks, hard refractories, etc. Lastly the bubbles are evacuated silica spherules these were originally included as part of the aggregate in the refractory to reduce weight but the little vacuum bubbles act as decent insulation. 

Sorry, I did what I said I wouldn't, I hope I didn't confuse you but seeing a commercially made forge being sold with bare refractory blanket trips my DANGER  trigger.

I'm not saying don't buy the forge, I'm just saying you should do a little finish work on it and be SURE you're as safe as possible.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

And Kast-O-lite 30 is sold in five pound bags by several sources, for just this purpose.

Rose,

We on IFI are aware of the feeling of "information overload" in beginners. However, once you get started, do not hesitate to refer back to us for metal smiting information, once you wade down to the deep end; we've all been there

Y'all this is an older thread but I've been doing a lot of research and since Diamondback is mentioned here, I was wondering if I could pick up on that theme. I really wish the Mr. Volcano was still avaliable as I have seen lots of positive feedback on it. I wish I could afford a Chili forge but not happening sadly enough. I've had the Diamondback 2 burner blacksmith model. Can't remember what series, but I know it when I see it. It was a good forge and I'm considering it again. After reading the above about single burners, my question is, what is better about a 2 burner over a single burner? Is there any or much difference? I've always had a double burner no matter what brand of gasses I've had. And if I need to put this somewhere else please do so mods. I try to get as much information as I can without hassling anyone needlessly

23 hours ago, CrazyGoatLady said:

my question is, what is better about a 2 burner over a single burner? Is there any or much difference? I've always had a double burner no matter what brand of gasses I've had. And if I need to put this somewhere else please do so mods. I try to get as much information as I can without hassling anyone needlessly

The difference between single and two burner forges, Diamondback or any other make, is size versus price. Any two burner forge can be run as a single burner forge, by temporarily walling off its rear section and shutting the gas off on that burner.

Bottom line is, by spending more money up front, you get a forge with increased ability; most people like that. As to portability and efficiency, there isn't much difference.

I recommend Diamondback forges as being the most bang for the back, since Mr. Volcano stopped selling forges. Fortunately Diamondback retooled their design and lowered their prices

Mikey, thank you. That's where my thinking was but since I have no experience with a single burner, I thought I'd ask. I'm trying to make the most informed decision I can. I have been using a JABOD and I really enjoy solid fuel for the quietness and way less scale production. I have been reading up on that though about how to tune and close off openings properly and I think I understand it much better than I used to. I'll keep looking through the forge sections here on IFI. After asking, I kept reading and saw answers to most of my questions so I apologize but I sure appreciate your response. It helped me to finalize what direction I want to go

On 11/10/2024 at 4:21 PM, Frosty said:

Are you looking at the Diamondback, Series 3 single burner, (blacksmiths) forge? It looks like a decent forge, the through ports on the side will come in handy for heating the center of long stock. This is an excellent feature

I  haven't been to their site in quite a while and am going to add a couple things to your buy list.

#1 is buy or make rigidizer, all the pics I've looked at on their site show bare ceramic wool refractory liners and I don't see one word about them using one of the "safe" types. Admittedly I haven't searched the site but sealing refractory wool is WAY TOO IMPORTANT to not do or at least mention. 

Once rigidized it needs a layer of hard refractory as armor against snagging or gouging it at high temp. It also provides a hard barrier to protect the blanket from damage.

What happens to refractory ceramic blanket insulation when it comes to forging temperatures is it vitrifies, becomes brittle and fibers break off to float around in YOUR breathable air. These tiny ceramic needles become lodged in your lungs and can NOT be dissolved out the way the junk we breath normally is. 

After a while having very many of these little barbs lodged in your aviole can cause mesothelioma like cancers. This is a B A D thing.

Rigidizer is simply colloidal silica mixed with clean fresh water and a few drops of food coloring. After wetting the refractory wool (buttering) you spritz the wool thoroughly, the food coloring will show how much and where you've covered the blanket. Lastly you cure the rigidizer by bringing it to red heat, lighting the burner works nicely just don't get too carried away. This melts the silica where it collected at intersections of ceramic blanket fibers locking them in place. This makes this blanket physically more rigid while at the same time helping prevent broken fibers from floating into your breathable.

The hard refractory flame face is confusing, there have been so many people use "refractory" CEMENT that everybody is using the term. Cement or mortar is intended to stick, bricks, tiles, rocks, etc. together and "refractory mortar" works a treat so long as it doesn't have a propane flame impinging on it. typical forging temps break mortar flame faces down rather quickly.

My preference for a flame face refractory is, "Kastolite-30-li." It's a water setting, high alumina bubble refractory. Water setting means that once you mix it with water it sets like concrete. Neither "dry" the water forms bonds with the calcites on a molecular level. The alumina component is in part what makes the calcites remain bonded with water at much higher temperatures than portland cement does. Alumina is also very resistant to the chemical erosion borax based forge welding fluxes cause to silica based stuff, ceramic blanket, bricks, hard refractories, etc. Lastly the bubbles are evacuated silica spherules these were originally included as part of the aggregate in the refractory to reduce weight but the little vacuum bubbles act as decent insulation. 

Sorry, I did what I said I wouldn't, I hope I didn't confuse you but seeing a commercially made forge being sold with bare refractory blanket trips my DANGER  trigger.

I'm not saying don't buy the forge, I'm just saying you should do a little finish work on it and be SURE you're as safe as possible.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Hi I'm a year later finally getting around to setting up my forge. (I have too many projects)

I have a question about the rigidizer and refractory. The diamond back forge I bought has wool in the door and solid like insulation bricks in the walls. Should I put refractory on those bricks too? Are they as dangerous as the wool? I'm guessing they don't need the rigidizer for sure though? TIA!

Are you sure you didn't mean to write insulation boards, when you wrote bricks? Assuming that you meant to state boards, the answer is probably not, for safety's sake. However, a finish coat of Plistix 900 will settle the issue, and pay for itself many times over in increased efficiency. Your forge will get hotter, and do so faster, allowing you to turn your gas pressure down.

After you rigidize all the ceramic wool,  you still need to seal coat its surface. The Plistix is good for that job too.

I mean maybe insulation board is the right word but it also functionally looks like a condensed brick of the insulation wool. It's not fire bricks like are on the bottom of the forge. I could take a pic when I'm in my shop tomorrow. But semantics aside, I bought kastolite 30 per frosty's recommendation above. I'm assuming that is similar to the plistix you're talking about?

No, Rose; they are not similar, but they are complimentary.

Kast-O-lite 30 is a superior high heat  high alumina insulating refractory, which we do not suggest be used in anything thinner than 1/2" thick layers, although some people get by with 1/4" thick layers, over rigidized ceramic wool.     

  Plistix 900 is a high alumina finish coating used to seal ceramic wool fibers against become airborne, and creating toxic dusk in your lungs; protects the surfaces of ceramic board and Morgan K26 insulating bricks from flame damage, and even  reflect flame heat  from the surface of Kast-O-lite 30 refractory (among others); Its two main uses are to seal other refractory surfaces, and also to create a thin heat reflective coating. Both of these products prove quite superior for their intended uses.

Hope this helps,

Mikey