Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Hi everyone, I just recently purchased my first gas forge, and I liked it with refractory cement, specifically this brand: After a few days, I figured the cement was set, which seemed accurate given how hard it was. However, upon lighting the forge, a number of large bubbles formed in the cement, which I had break apart so I could reapply the cement. What signs am I looking for in regards to knowing when the cement is set? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 *lined, not liked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Welcome to IFI! If you haven't yet, READ THIS FIRST. This kind of refractory cement is no good for forges; it's designed to hold firebrick in place, not to resist the high temperatures and direct flame exposure in a forge. You're going to have to tear it out and start again. There are a number of threads in the forum about proper lining for gas forges, such as this one: https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/47453-how-to-kast-o-lite-30-and-kaowool-scraps/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) Ah, I see. Well that’s not the answer I was hoping for, but I’m happy to know the direction I need to move in. Thank you! Edited January 5 by Mod34 Removed unnecessary quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Welcome aboard Huali, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of meeting up with members living within visiting distance. I know how it feels to discover what I thought was a good idea turns out to be not so good. . . . AFTER paying for it, materials, etc. The bubbles formed in your forge liner because it was not dry. That isn't something you can judge by how hard it is. Refractory cements especially need to be heat cured in steps. Unfortunately that wouldn't have made what you bought a good enough forge liner but it works fine for other things. How about an outdoor firepit / BBQ? Hmmmm? Kast-o-lite 30 is a 3,000f, water setting, high alumina, bubble refractory. That means it is made to survive a 3,000f furnace environment. "Water Setting," means it does NOT dry, water combines with the calcites in the binder to form a solid, It's exactly the same process (with different calcites and results) as Portland cement concrete, add water mix and it sets into a stone-like material. "High Alumina" refers to mineral, alumina replacing a large % of the mineral, silica in the mix. The "Bubble" is most of the remaining silica in the form of evacuated hollow silica spherules. All in all it resists the caustic erosion of molten welding fluxes and the bubbles lessen the weight and increase the insulating properties of the forge liner. It's a fact of blacksmithing life that things we try don't work, normal normal, we're generally really good at it. However do NOT forgot what you did, to what and what happened! Keep a notebook of what you do and the results, sketches and photos are good to include. Why keep track of mistakes? Just because it didn't work for what you intended does NOT mean it isn't THE PERFECT trick, thing for something else later. How about bouncing gas forge ideas of the Iforge gang. We won't steer you wrong and can help you save money up front. Hmmmm? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Ah, gotcha, that makes sense. Where would you recommend I purchase Kast-O-Lite 30? as for the other advice, I’ll take it to heart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Ahhhhhhh! Now you see why it'd be a good idea if I could look at your header, see where you live so I could look up one of the outlets that carry Kastolite 30. Hmmmm? Truth is it's not that easy to find for sale in small lots, Glenn Conner the late owner of Iforge used to offer small quantities for reasonable but he's gone and the Iforge store may or may not get operating again. Give me an idea where you live and I can look at vendors I have bookmarked and maybe shorten the search for you. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Ah, my apologies. I’ll update it now, but I live in the Indianapolis, Indiana area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Ahhh, I'm just messing with the new guy a little but if you're going to to apologize like that I'll feel all bad about it. <sigh> I'll start looking in the morning, I've had a day. Writing note now. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Awesome, thank you! And don’t feel bad, I’m cordial to a fault, haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 If you’re just getting started, try to catch up with the IBA. The satellite group in Indy meets on the 4th Saturday of the month… The is no better way to get started than working with experienced smiths hands on. If you’re interested, just google “Indiana Blacksmith Association,” that should bring you the their website and the latest newsletter will have contact information for the hammer-ins. I’m hosting a hammer-in next Saturday down here in Seymour and you more that welcome to stop in, but there is another hammer-in in Waverly on the same day that’s closer to you. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Hi David! I’ve already been going to IBA meetings and I’m working on getting full membership. I came into the group through Doug W., my name is Max F. I’ve got long blonde hair and a brown beard (not that those traits would particularly make me stand out in the IBA group, haha!) I believe we may have already met, but I’m not sure. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I’m not sure if we have met or not. Honestly, I’m not that good a “peopling” and don’t attend too many events outside those of the Vernon Chapter. Those other events that I do attend, I often keep to myself. (However, once I know you, you’re stuck with me .) (I am planning on going to the conference in June and have committed to helping Bill with the kids classes/session. That should help me get to know a few more smiths outside of my normal group.) Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Gotcha, I’ll keep an eye out for you! I hope to meet you this summer, if not sooner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Okay, I found a source though I don't know if they sell to the public. HWI is the manufacturer of Kastolite refractories but the closest distributers are in PA and I doubt you want a rail car load. The distributor I get mine from in Anchorage is "Distribution International" lucky for us ours sells to the public. There is a branch office reasonably close. . . I hope in Indianapolis. Posting commercial links and I think addresses, ph #s, etc. is against IFI rules I'll PM the specifics to you. Call them on the phone, using the contact links or email often gets placed in the ignore file if you aren't interested in large (truckload) quantities. If their office doesn't sell to the public ask who does. It's a common product for furnace rebuilds and patching. Good luck. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huali_the_Kitsune_ Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Ahh, sorry, I got the notification for the PM but not this, just saw this. I’ll give them a call. Thank you so much for all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 You're welcome, it's my pleasure. I sent the pm first, then edited this before sending so there was a couple minutes lag. You can stop apologizing so much now, I like to save mine for when someone deserves one or they lose meaning. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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