German blacksmith vices - some questions

[caotropheus]

Today I visited a friend and I found these small vices (less than 15 kg weight, less than 10 cm jaws)

If you look at the legs, they are usually short and are not made to be in contact with the ground, rather to be bolted or nailed to the stand.

Some details of edge of leg with a hole to secure the vice to its stand.

The mounting plate is also fairly small

I am interested in buying one of these vices, here are some pictures/measurements (I forgot to make a picture of the screw but it is in mint condition).

It weighs about 11 kg.

So, My questions are:

1 - what sort of work were they used for?

2 - why the legs are so short and made to be secured to the stand/post and not to the ground? This certainly will make then less stable in the stand for a bit heavier work, right?

3 - I already have two nice blacksmith vices (one 30 kg, one 65 kg), please help me decide if I should buy this vice and keep it "just in case"...

I leave here two more pictures of my friend's vices

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

If the price was right, I would buy one to have a small bench blacksmith vise, for light work that I didn't want to use the larger post vises or my bench machinist vise.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[caotropheus]

So, these type of vices may be considered "blacksmith bench vises"?

Thanks

[Nobody Special]

You know, I have been running into leg vises for years that have had the bottom part of the leg sheared off, often because they were fixed into something like cement and it was easier to cut off than remove it whole for whoever scavenged it. Thomas Powers even sent me a piece of wrought to weld on and repair one once. It never occurred to me in all that time to simply put a couple of holes in the leg and bolt it to a post. Yeesh. While I appreciate the rather obvious idea, now I feel like an idiot.

[caotropheus]

Wow, now you talk about it, you right, it never occurred to me that might be the case (broken leg). Probably someone wanted to fit the vice in a limited space and this was the solution for a long leg?

These and other question would get better answers from a German blacksmith who knows better the purpose of these tools. 

[ShoreB]

Caotropheus, in the below link, the original poster indicated that he is a professionally trained German smith.  Perhaps you could try and send him a message?  Those vises are quite interesting I'd say buy one just in case!

 

 

[Julianb]

Hello!

The smaller vices are not meant to be used as a post-vice to hammer on. They are more of a general metalworkers vice. The German term would be "Schlosserschraubstock", Schlosser originally meaning locksmith, but the profession of general metalworkers is called Schlosser as well. Those vices have been made with legs of different length, but they are meant to be fastened to a workbench etc. like this. This is usually not a modification.

There are also post-vices to be used as a blacksmithing vice to hammer onto, which are then called "Schmiedeschraubstock" (Blacksmiths vice) or "Feuerschraubstock" (Fire vice). They usually are available with wider jaws than the short-legged ones.

I'd love to upload historical tool-catalogues as a source here, but I do not own the rights to those pictures. If I ever find some originals to own by myself, I hopefully remember this thread here.

Cheers!
Julian

[ShoreB]

Very interesting; thanks for sharing Julian.

[caotropheus]

Thank you Julianb

First I learnt with you a bit more about German tools. Again, I ought to refer that once one discovers German tools, no other tools will be ever used... All my vices are German, anvils are German, preferred hammer German and so on.  If I was limited to keep a single vice to "do it all" that would be a Heuer front 175/180

Second, I ended up by buying the Schlosserschraubstock I pictured in more detail.

[caotropheus]

I cleaned the vice with some electrolysis and for my surprise there are some markings under all the layers of paint and rust. Once again I appeal for the kindness of the specialists on German tooling is they can identify the manufacturer of the vice

Also the vice is made of wrought iron, making it older then I thought. If you guys can help me date the vice that would be great.

Thank you

PS: I am making a video on the restoration

 

[Julianb]

Hi!

That's a good looking result, I need to try electrolysis myself some time!

No idea about the maker though, but I can't really make out every letter. It is a little more difficult to find out the manufacturer of vices though, as they were produced by a whole lot more toolmakers. They might have even been marked with a resellers name or the name of the company/ person that used it. I have a similar vice with a name stamped in, but I cannot for the life of it find out more about it...

Cheers!

[Frosty]

Excellent results from the electrolysis, it came out beautifully. 

The characters are a real teaser, I can make out some but not all of them. The arched word maybe one long one or two, the last part maybe "Craft" Or "Graff maybe graft". It looks to me most like "Dan, Graff or Graft". The lower word(s?) is mostly a jumble with a slightly Netherlands flavor.

If you dust it with white chalk or flour, wipe the surface and lit it at a shallow angle from one side it will be more clear. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[caotropheus]

Thank you for your answers.

Frosty, I tried to use the chalk or flour method and the result was even  less intelligible . 

I leave you here a picture of the final product

[caotropheus]

Here it is a video of the restauration