kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) hello I have a little problem my charchoal forge is too slow and non economic for me so I am going to make a GAS forge so the problem is in my tube for it... my tank (water heater) is made of steel thick 3mm or i think 0,1 inch his diameter is 30cm so the question is: is all that strong enough to hold the tempreture (I already seen all blueprints on this site,...) Edited September 14, 2008 by kovacija(blacksmith) no pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLOB Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 the tube in my forge is made from 16 guage steel (.059" or about 1.5mm) and it works fine. its been recomended to me that a thicker one would last longer but it hasnt been a problem so far. that assumes you use enough insulation....what are you planning to use for lining it? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 I think some wool ressistant to fire... if not I have been tested a roof cover wool and it gives a (some ) results 40% not burning teksture and 30 cm diameter is that enough? (for my forge) I have a lot bricks-from el.heaters actualy ressistant bricks for the iterior of forge;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) If you insulate it that's plenty thick enough. Unless you're planning on putting iron weighing a couple hundred kilos in it. I've used 28 and 30 gauge stove pipe with good results. 26 gauge being 0.5mm. The larger the gauge number the thinner the sheet. I don't know what kind of insulating refractory wool you have so I can't help with that. Whatever you do you have to keep the fire from hitting the steel shell or it will burn up. If you were to cut fire brick to fit that would work well as will just stacking the fire brick into a forge chamber without the steel shell. We call those a "Brick pile" forge. When using bricks I've always built a pile forge. Until I built my latest forge that is. Frosty Edited September 13, 2008 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) I see I had stupid wories about my forge... Now I know why I become a member of this web page-because people like you! thanks for everything! still I have problem with burner My dad has a lot air conditioning equipment ( cooper pipes etc...) and i must figure out how to make a perfect burner... until then salute to all of YOU!:cool: Edited September 13, 2008 by kovacija(blacksmith) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Forget about perfect, a good burner isn't perfect, it burns a little rich so as not to scale your iron up. A gun/ blown burner is pretty easy to build and adjust. All you need is a small blower, 200-300 cfm is plenty I think. Then you need some iron pipe and an elbow. Put a piece of 1/4", 6-7mm? pipe near the elbow on the blower side. Attach it to your forge with the end of the burner pipe just inside the refractory. Hook up the gas to the gas pipe small dia. Use a regulator and a sensitive valve so it's easy to adjust the gas flow. Once that's done, light some paper, put it in the forge, turn on the blower, THEN the gas. Once it's burning adjust the gas flow till you have a neutral flame. That's all there is to a gun burner and they work very well. Oh yes, I don't recall you asking any dumb questions. If you don't know something and there are people around who do and are willing to answer them for you then it's dumb, really REALLY dumb, NOT to ask. Glad you're here. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Where are you in Croatia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 Ok for the burner this summer my paycheck went to oxy-fuel(propane) equipment (aprox. 1000$) but i still haven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 maybe this is OK - I have all the material- pipes:cool: see in the first post on top of the page-picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymm Hoffman Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 I will try to post some more information later. Until then take a look at my photos on Forge Magic: http://www.forgemagic.com/bsgview.php?by='Jymm%20Hoffman'. I have changed the manifold to the gas forges, but you should be able to build this system and will be impressed with how hot and how fast it will get hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 that is genius! it is what I was looking for-I can connect my wacume cleaner to the water pipe! only i still cannot understand the gas inyection? throug the elbow pipe... What about forged ends of water pipes is it very important how wide are they open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymm Hoffman Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Starting with the manifold, it is made from 1 1/2 inch black pipe parts. The burner tips are 10 inch nipples cut in 1/2. I heat them up and flatten to a 1/8 inch sheet to act as a gauge. I no longer us elbows and street ells as it requires more adjusting or tuning of the burners tips. By only using T's, there is less need to adjust the burner tips (open one that is not burning as well as the other by using a long chisel while it is running.) The T's do not necessarily have to be welded together, you can use short nipples to connect everything. I used to recommend 1/8 inch hole for the gas, but the newer method of connecting a 1/4 nipple to a ball valve into the 1 1/2" to 1/1/2 inch T works fine. VERY IMPORTANT: This system works on household gas pressure, here in the United States, that is 11 inches of water column, about 1/2 pound of pressure. A common regulator that is already set for this pressure is used on outdoor gas barbecue grills. Do not try this system on high pressure gas with this large of an orifice. I normally run 3/8 to 1/2 inch rubber propane hose from the regulator to the ball valve. NEXT IMPORTANT PART: The blower must be a high speed blower that can produce not only enough CFM, but also enough pressure. I do not know what the minimums are, I use blowers readily available from Kayne & Son/Blacksmiths Depot: Blacksmiths Depot | Forge Blowers. The small blower they sell works great, it develops 112 CFM at 36 ounces of pressure. I run my smaller 2 burner and large 3 burner systems with the same blower (not at the same time of course.) I also use 2 inches of ceramic fiber blanket to line the entire forge. I do occasionally replace the upper exposed layer from time to time. Normally as a result of me damaging the lining. I use a ram refractory called Ram Pack 85 to cover the bottom half of the system to protect the blanket from flux while forge welding. This also acts as a little bit of a heat sink that then in turn reflects the heat up and actually helps to make the system work better. I coat the entire interior with thinned down 3,000 mortar instead of ITC or a rigidizer. It is less expensive and serves the same purpose of containing the fibers from the blanket. The manifolds shown with elbows have been changed to T's. Also, the shell in progress does not have the ram refractory covering the bottom yet. I would also recommend more than one burner in the tank you plan to use. It will give you a much more even heat, and it is better to turn the entire system down than to try to shut off one burner if you want it cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the explanation... but I can Edited September 14, 2008 by kovacija(blacksmith) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymm Hoffman Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 You should be able to find a blower/motor that will work. I listed the ones I use as a reference. Since I listed the pressure and volumes, after you convert to metric, start digging around. Try different types of furnace and other gas heating systems. While a blower may cost more in starting a system, it pays for itself as they normally use less gas, get hotter and get hot faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 (edited) I found a gas burner so I am wondering if is possible to install it into the forge? see pictures above... Edited September 15, 2008 by kovacija(blacksmith) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Jymm, do you alter the volume of air as well as adjusting the gas pressure? Or keep the air pressure/flow constant and just rely on altering the gas flow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymm Hoffman Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 kovacija, I would not be happy with one burner in the tank you plan to use. I have no idea if the burner you have will work. Look for a blower. John, the pressure in the gas is constant, no adjustment. However, I do adjust the flow or volume on both the gas and the air. Too much flame coming out cut the gas or increas the air. Not enough gas, visa versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 yes just like i ment... I am not happy too! I will try to make a blower of some sort for the burner... I think it would work...:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgtwister Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 welcome kovacija i dont know if you have these there but clothing dryers have blowers gas furnaces have blowers on the flue pipe also older car heaters have blowerhousings i have even seen some one modify a turbo off a car and added a motor to it i think he cut one side off and hooked it to a motor when looking just think of things that blow air has some type of blower in it good luck on the forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inazuma_x Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 could you just order some bits in from the states? getting crosspein hammers down here proved to be pretty difficult...so i ordered some from OS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 (edited) I found some sort of a blower (in the bush) but I think it will be dificult to make something of it...what about a hair dryer? it has a stand for rotor but the ball bearnig is broken so it jams sometimes i tried to hook it up with a old blender motor (bad connection ) it product a very strong blow (need bigger engine) how am I going to hook it up with an axle ????-of el.motor any suggestions? should I remove the existing axle of "blower" Edited September 16, 2008 by kovacija(blacksmith) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 I have removed the round stabilizer with forging off and now searching for the el motor to run it now it has a straight axle with no add ons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 OK today the burner (blower) will be finished! i somehow hooked up the el. motor to the blower (blower is a washdryer part) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironrosefarms Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Kovacija, I can't wait to see picture of your finished project, thanks for sharing the photo's as well James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovacija(blacksmith) Posted September 19, 2008 Author Share Posted September 19, 2008 done it!!!! it wasn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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