New forge is here

[Pigsticker]

My new forge arrived with the puff cut to shape and a bag of refractory cement. How much will i lose without the special puff and kastolite 3. I still am going to coat in metrakote. Is it hotter under flame or between the two. About 6" apart.

Thanks guys and gals

[Hefty]

Your question is unclear to me. By "puff" I'm guessing you mean ceramic wool or similar? "How Much will I lose..." Do you mean how much volume will the ceramic wool and kastolite take up? It depends on the thickness of the ceramic wool, and to a degree, its density as this will affect how much it can "squish" into place. I'm not an expert but from what I've seen ceramic wool/ceramic fibre blanket/whatever trade name it is usually come in 1" or 2" thicknesses. It also depends on how much refractory cement they have provided. I think the general consensus on the forum is to apply it somewhere in the ballpark of 1/4" thick walls and maybe slightly thicker floor? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

So, it will be the volume of the unlined forge minus the volume taken up by the wool and cement. If it's a cylindrical forge the space left in the forge after lining will be:

pi x (radius of forge shell - thickness of wool and cement) squared x length of forge.

Is this what you were looking for?

Also, in my forge (2 x 3/4" T burners) I find there are still two distinct hot spots. One under each burner, slightly cooler in between (at least until it heats up fully). But, there are a lot of variables so YMMV.

Cheers,

Jono.

[Frosty]

Until you get the blanket rigidized and covered with refractory wear a respirator to keep the ceramic fiber articles out of your lungs. It is a dangerous breathing hazard. Especially do NOT fire it up until it's been rigidized and covered with refractory! Once the fibers have been vitrified they break with very sharp ends and become more dangerous.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Pigsticker]

Is 1/8 quart enough to rigidize and enough metrakote enough to cover this kiln?

Thanks

Thanks guys, good stuff, would you still metrakote. The 5vside shape is much smaller than my 1 burner rectangle Ad for forge said 4 minutes to 2600 degrees. Ill have to wear shoes

Tx

When i said puff i meant the blanket and when i said off i meant temp under blanket, kastolite and metrakote. Is it 20% etc. Cooler. OR FOrge wont go over 2100 degrees. My fire port is also about 3-4 inches closer to the floor of forge.

Tx

[Mikey98118]

The hex shaped shell of your forge, will allow you to mold the ceramic fiber and hard refractory coatings into an oval or "D" shape inside, which is fine. However,those burners look way too large for that size forge; their flame retention nozzles look to have oversized diameters for their mixing tubes. The photo appears to show something that might be a gas pipe running between them and into their nozzles, instead of being placed near the mixing tube openings; I will assume that it is not. But what it is, remains a mystery. I conclude that your forge is likely to suffer from a back pressure problem, resulting in poor combustion, low heat levels, and quite a lot of carbon monixied exiting both of its ends, as blue flame; is that correct?

It does you now good to hear about your problems, without a reasonable solution. About now, what you find resonable is likely to be pretty restricted. Fortunately, those burners look like they can be aesily removed, and replaced by a single $25 Mister Volcano burner, which is all that forge can possibly use. Shove some leftover ceramic fiber in the front hole, stack a brick against the back opening, and use two or three bricks about 1" away from the front opening, to crontrol heat loss.

No, those two burners aren't wasted, either. You will start wanting a larger forge in a few months, and they can be recyled into it. In the meantime, you will have lots of time to investigate, how to change them from poor to good burners; all the anwers you need are available right here on IFI. For instance, what to do about the oversized diameters on their flame retention nozzles? Insert   stainless steel pipes inside of them, to reduce their diameters; this also solves the problem of oxidative loss, which would otherwise make them unusable in a few months. But how do you match the pipe that you buy with the exsiting inside diameters of those nozzles? Simply slit the pipe inserts along their inside weld beads, and compress them to fit. Don't forget to drill and thread holes for three little stainless steel socket set screws into the existing nozzles, to keep the inserts in place, when those nozzles heat up

[Pigsticker]

Wow. Thanks so so much.  If i make a d or oval, will i be bringing the back of the blanket into play? (Need to kastolite it) The burner part really sucks because that is exactly as it was in box when dlvd. Thanks for noticing though. Should i try it 2 burner to see or not even try. This is a pic of the remaining burner i have. No reducer. Second one is a closeup to make sure.( i do believe you) thanks again, i hope this rolls quick.

Thank you

 

By rolls quick i meant the labor of packing forge

 

Thats really good stuff above. Even what to do with the remaining two burners. Great help, thanks 

[wirerabbit]

This is a Vevor forge and will work just fine. You may be right, Mikey, about the burners. I have still used only one on mine and have had no problem melting small curls off my s hooks!

You are seeing a small handle between the burner retention sleeves rather than a pipe. I have been running mine for several hours now and am still using the simple red-nobbed regulator that came with the kit. I set it at 1.5 rotations and leave the air shutter at about half way. I'm sitting at 400 feet above sea level and and pulling from a 33 lbs tank. Full disclosure, I have not really spent the time to dial in this forge, so no fiddling with the primary air or blocking off ends. I fire with both ends open, one burner, and a slight flame out the front.

I'll put my charcoal forge up against my Vevor forge any day, but sometimes you want to experiment with longer heats, etc. It will do. Mikey's suggestions for improvements might be an option I take up at a later time. For now it's good enough. Enjoy Pigsticker.

Taylor

[Pigsticker]

All of the sudden yal break loose with good stuff. Many thanks. Do you use the burner in front or back? Most of my sstuff will require 1 open end. Tied to that is you said you kept the front breathing, pretty positive you mean burner barely on? And how should i shape my burning. Chamber? I ve only got the kaowool they sent thats stuck to the sides. I do have 5 lbs of kasto coming i could fill it with.

Thanks a million yal

[Mikey98118]

1 hour ago, Pigsticker said:

Wow. Thanks so so much.  If i make a d or oval, will i be bringing the back of the blanket into play?

Taking your questions one by one, lets begin the the ceramic blanket. Lots of people decide to use the flame coating to push the blanket into shape. Some people are even sharp enough to mostly succeed with that move. But, as Frosty already pointed out the safe path is to use rigidizer to soak the blanket, and then mold it, before the water dries out of the solution, and turn the burners on for a couple of minutes to give it a permanent shape. Unlike many other tasks, this can be successfully done as easily  piece meal, or all at once. You can even use a cardboard inner form, held together with tape to help you push the blanket where you want it to end up, before soaking with rigidizer, and heating the blanket, for it will freeze into the finish shape, before the cardboard burns up. Having shaped the blanket itself, holding, or even slightly improving that shape is far easier than trying to produce it as you put on the flame face.

 

2 hours ago, Pigsticker said:

Should i try it 2 burner to see or not even try.

Always try; it doesn't matter what the outcome is, for you will learn something. Who knows, maybe things will be better than I predict. Then you can come back hear and say "See there mister smarty pants?" Personally, I think all us smarty pants need a sharp dressing down, frequently

 

1 hour ago, wirerabbit said:

This is a Vevor forge and will work just fine.

Good info, Tayor

[Pigsticker]

Wow, ima have to print all this good stuff. 

If i rearrange the six pieces wow do seal the back of thexposed wool. Sorry if thata a repeat i cant find it.

I think i figured out the bottom of the forge is wider, therefore making a d possible with nothing but smoothing joints of top blanket. Thus i leave 6 pieces on walls and curve the top w kastolite. I finally see the D

Thanks all

[Mikey98118]

It is good to finally see the "D." I am a fan of the oval, but despite my druthers, am forced to confess that the "D" rules 

[Pigsticker]

D it is. I only saw it cause my eyes are getting blurry and i was about to drill my hole. It was really embarrassing to see it finally. Big thanks again. Do you have a start to finish forge posted? Im always looking to learn, except electrics

Also wondering do you think if only thing i have for any real heat is the forges big burner should i burn in rigidizer. I think last time i did it on kastolites cook in before metrakote. Could be wrong.

Thanks much, im almost ready if theyll ship my kastolite

[Mikey98118]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:27 PM, Pigsticker said:

Do you have a start to finish forge posted?

I don't have it posted, but you can buy or rent a used copy of the book Gas Burners for Forges, Furnaces, & Kilns; it has also been available for free downloads from various pirate sites for decades; and no, I have nothing against it being downloaded from such a source

23 hours ago, Pigsticker said:

Also wondering do you think if only thing i have for any real heat is the forges big burner should i burn in rigidizer.

Yes, you definitely should use one of the burners that way. I suggest just such a course in the book.

And there are complete instructions on how to build a gas forge, from a used five-gallon propane cylinder in the book; these old cylinders are given away at various propane supply sources.

[Pigsticker]

Nice, ill definately read. Appreciate your friendly attitude,  if you or anyone else ever needs any info on wood, im your man. Not making finestuff but working wood.( i know its a metal theme here but info is info)

Thanks a million Boss, Ill keep yal up with pictures of progress. Again thanks for everything guys

Hey good buddies. If any of yal still got yours ears on.....

Do i need a pressure gauge on this new forge. The new hose doesnt look like it comes apart to put a gauge in by the tank. I think i like having it because on last one.i went from wide open (well over 20) to 13psi. I could meke it 1 week on 1 tank. Or just barely open tank or another just look at it (the flame)

Thanks and please forgive if i have a wrong word. You seem ok

[Mikey98118]

There are are three guys that I know of on this forum who have worked art in multiple materials. Although raised in an ornamental iron shop, I started deliberately mixing it with glass, once I rose to making design decisions; eventually, I blew glass into ornamental iron candle holders. One of the other guys on here spent years blowing glass (I think professionally). I don't know why guys on here don't talk much about it, but mixed-media was my passion, back when I was young enough to have any 

Frosty,

I read your message, but when a paged back to the previous page, to see what guy you meant, your message disappeared. Being barely able to deal with computers at all, I have had to accept the glitches that happen on this forum

 

Also, the coffee hasn't had much time to circulate in my brain, and various other excuses...

[Pigsticker]

Also on this post earlier someone recommended putting refractory in over rigidized blanket before first firing. Does that sound right?

Above im using refractory to say the word kastolite. I assume thats the aforementioned refractory? Am i asking all the important questions. Im terrified of kaowool

Thanks much all

[Mikey98118]

3 hours ago, Pigsticker said:

Also on this post earlier someone recommended putting refractory in over rigidized blanket before first firing. Does that sound right?

Short answer? No; long answer is certainly not! But that is only my view. Query them about their reasons; perhaps they have good ones. Nobody knows everything. Or else we would have to call them a "know-it-all" (maybe that is a poor choice of subject for a know-it-all)...more coffee, yes, that will fix things up

3 hours ago, Pigsticker said:

Above im using refractory to say the word kastolite. I assume thats the aforementioned refractory? Am i asking all the important questions. Im terrified of kaowool

Okay, you are mostly dealing with hot-roding mad scientist types here; yes a bunch of them are sensible, but the rest of us try hard to ignore that, as much as we can. So, naturally our favorite answers tend to be extreme. In the real world, a made several casting furnaces from five-gallon propane cylinders, that had two-inch thick Kast-O-lite 30 linings; they work just fine, and heated up almost as quickly as the latter equipment that had 1/2" thick flame faces of Kast-O-lite 30, backed with 2" thick ceramic fiber insulation. They may take away my union card for saying so.

[Pigsticker]

Ok thanks. I figure ill wear my pretty new mask and work outside on a windy day or use my mosquito fans at my back.

thanks much

Try earl grey tea. I cut an easy 10 cup a day habit in just a morning. Tea counts as drinking water too. ( dont know if coffee does too) You dont feel that late day coffee jonesing ( glassblower reference)

Tx

[Mikey98118]

So, what I'm getting at is that it's okay to watch the cartoons without your Warner Brothers hat. And by the way, just do what you need to, to reach your goal.

9 minutes ago, Pigsticker said:

You dont feel that late day coffee jonesing ( glassblower reference)

When I wuz young and in my prime, I drunk that coffee, all the time. But now I'm old and very gray, I only slurps it once per day.

The other two mugs is tea

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I don't drink coffee any more or less, about 2 10 cup pots per day. Debi only gets about 1 cup out of those 2 pots.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[Pigsticker]

Thanks all for this help. Very useful details that werent on searchable internet with limited vocab

Thanks  all

Ill send pics asap 

[Mikey98118]

On 11/9/2023 at 5:53 PM, Hefty said:

I think the general consensus on the forum is to apply it somewhere in the ballpark of 1/4" thick walls and maybe slightly thicker floor? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

You have it right. However, circumstances always alter cases, and we try to keep tweaking our advice to keep up with them. The latest circumstance to call along, is a flood of reasonably priced small commercial forges. What I view as first forges, because they are affordable, and small. For most of us, a larger forge isn't to far down the road, after some use with one of these beginner's models. This works out very well, because, no matter what forge people eventually think of as their ideal, that small forge will always be used whenever possible to keep the fuel bills down, and to keep the shop cooler in warm weather.

But, the smaller the forge the more important those details, like floor thickness becomes; not just for cubic area, but also to keep enough room for combustion to complete before the flame impinges on the work. One of the changed circumstances, is a few vendors selling reasonably priced ceramic fiber board, to place beneath a Kastolite floor; this choice is timely, because my favorite choice of floor (a high alumina kiln shelf) has become overpriced.