Ram guide for 50# Little Giant Tansition style hammer

[Raspberry Island]

I have a 50# Little Giant Transition style power hammer that has a broken ram guide and I am wondering if anyone has a ram guide for sale, or has  ever tried to fabricate a ram guide for the transition hammer?  It has been taken to a shop for brazing but I would like to explore the possibilities involved with fabrication of a new guide from steel.  Anyone have any experience they wish to share?

[Frosty]

Have you contacted the "Little Giant" company? Sid bought all the patents and rights for the Little Giant Power Hammer company when they shut their doors for good. Your chances are a lot better going to the source than asking a random bunch of people on the internet.

Not that we don't like helping folks, it's why a lot of us hang out here and why I made the above suggestion, it's my best advice on the subject.

If you put your general location in the header you'll have a much better chance of meeting up with members living within visiting distance. Lots of guys have experience with this type power hammer.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Raspberry Island]

Yes,  I should have mentioned that my first contact was with the Little Giant Company.  They don't have or make any of the ram guides for the 50# transition hammer.  Dave said that he has heard of someone who machined a ram guide for the 50# transition hammer,  but could not remember who it was.  I thought perhaps there may be a hammer that was parted out but no luck there either.  

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. A lot of us are not familiar with the Transition LG. How about some pictures of what you would like to replace.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[jason0012]

The guides can be fabricated from angle and plate. Use a thick piece of angle for the V and cut paper templates from the old guide for side pieces. Burn those from 3/8” (?) plate and hot bend to match the old guide. Clamp all three to the hammer frame and tack together. Remove the assembly and clamp well for welding. Skip around with lots of short beads to control distortion. After welding it won’t hurt to put it on a mill and skim the bolt up surfaces as well as the V.

[Raspberry Island]

Here are a couple of photos of the transition style 50# Little Giant and  ram guide.50# LITTLE GIANT 2.HEIC

50# LITTLE GIANT RAM GUIDE BROKEN 1.HEIC 50# LITTLE GIANT RAM GUIDE BROKEN 2.HEIC

Thank you Jason for your helpful suggestions regarding fabrication of the ram guide.   Your approach simplified the whole project.   I think I will give it a try, as i doubt that I will come up with a salvaged ram guide.

[Frosty]

I'd braze that in a hot second. I'd remove it from the hammer and clean the breaks with a strong solvent to make sure there is no dirt or oil residue and use a self fluxing braze powder in the breaks, re-install and clamp the breaks together. Then comes the torch possibly more than one. 

I'd check the specs for the best braze or silver braze for the job. Hard solders actually become part of the base metal and many are stronger than cast iron when applied properly. As a general rule of thumb the thinner the braze layer the stronger the join but there are limits on how thin it CAN get.

Grinding scarfs to fill is a welding technique and inappropriate for hard soldering, the less grinding the better. If the broken pieces will key together grinding is counter-indicated but if they don't grind as little as possible to ensure a close fit up of the joint surfaces. 

The advantage of the powdered hard solders is they don't have to flow into a joint, they are already in position and only have to met. 

Scarfing out the breaks and welding with a good nickel rod is always an option but not a very good one if you've already attempted a braze.

Fabricating a steel guide would just be finicky, not difficult.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Raspberry Island]

Thank  for the suggestions regarding brazing.  Brazing is something I know very little about and have no experience with it.  Therefore, the ram guide is at the metal shop and will be brazed by someone who is well experienced.  I will pass along your suggestions to the man who will do the brazing.   It is the second repair on the guide.  It was repaired a few years ago with brazing.  However,  I plan on passing this hammer along to a friend of mine and I would like to have it fixed in the best way possible.  Therefore,  he will get the original part repaired with brazing and with any luck,  a "new" fabricated steel ram guide which I hope to make.   In any case it will be a fun  project .

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

6 hours ago, Raspberry Island said:

Here are a couple of photos

There are some problems with opening Apple HEIC files for some of us. Converting them to JPEG would be a nice touch.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

 

[Raspberry Island]

Sorry,  I am not very schooled in all these things, but I am learning.  Here are some jpg photos for those who could not open the previous ones. Thanks for tipping me off to the problem.

[Buzzkill]

Whenever I see a break like that on something that is built that stout I always have to question why it cracked in the first place.  Was it normal wear and tear fatigue or is that possibly an indicator of other issues?  The last thing you want to do is spend the time, energy, and money fixing the ram guide only to have it break again as soon as you try to use it.

[Frosty]

Good points Buzz, I suppose you'd be the kind to take a look at the inside of the guide too? I don't believe cast iron work hardens like HC steel, especially not in a situation like a ram guide. It's a low stress situation, all the forces are sliding, no torque, no deflections, just sliding in a greasy groove. 

However that doesn't eliminate a flaw in the casting, maybe a slag inclusion or void could've created an initiation point and once one side broke the other side is at the end of a long lever, breaking again at the narrow spot wouldn't be unexpected. Or shouldn't be; of course a lot of people operate machinery without paying attention to the machine.

The incredibly unlikely is possible, say someone was forging a scribe on a longish piece of HC stock, you know long enough you don't need tongs. The smith is about finished and refining the surface, finishing rounding it or maybe putting a little work hardness on the point. And like so often happens, especially to new folk, he lifts the "scribe" too high so it's not laying flat on the bottom die, the top die hits the bridged piece and snaps it out of the smith's hand. It bounces off the sow block and strait up where the point is caught by the ram guide and the descending ram pins the other end against the sow block. The point is stabbed between ram and guide with the full force of a 50lb hammer at full speed.

I know almost silly implausible but incredibly implausible happens and I've had pieces get away from me by making the same mistake. It just hasn't resulted in serious BADNESS. Well stinging fingers and a bruise or two are just educational negative reinforcement.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I'm not sure but in the first picture it looks like the inner link may be canted rearward and hitting the ram guide. Torque of that nature will definitely cause a problem.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[jason0012]

That looks very weld able. Keeping everything square might be tough, but Nickle rod should do the job. As mentioned though, it will likely break again. This looks like the effect of combo dies side loading the ram. Whatever your solution, work to get all the slop out. The more wobble in the guides the more those dies will impact the casting.

[Goods]

I’m not sure welding it the way to go on this repair. If it broke along the original braze repair, all the brazing would need to be ground out to make a good weld.

Keep it fun,

David

[Frosty]

I took a closer look and I believe Randy is right. I'd check and and replace the pins in the links as part of the process of repairing the guide. If you're going to pull them to check you might as well replace them for GP. Don't forget to check the holes they live in.

Properly done a braze (hard solder) joint will exceed the strength of cast iron. There is some really fascinating high temperature metal chemistry that happens, the hard solder metal actually alloys with the base metal and if the gap is right the join is as if not stronger than the base metal. 

I believe there was a thread here on the subject with some superb articles linked. It was based on what I learned from them that I suggested you use one of the powdered or on further thought paste hard solders to do the repair. Getting rod type braze to flow that deep requires good technique and unless you have practice a good join is questionable. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Raspberry Island]

I took the advice of Janson and went the fabrication route.  I made full size drawings of the ram guide from multiple perspectives and decided on using 1/2 inch plate for the two curved side pieces, 1/2 inch x 1-3/4" x 1-3/4" angle iron for the front "grooved" piece, 1/4" x 1-1/4" x1-1/4" brass angle iron for the front liner and 1 inch thick plate for the two side mounting pieces.   The curved side pieces were cut out using flat card stock patterns that I made from the original guide.    They were bent cold in a press at L&M Steel in Brainerd, Minnesota  where I buy steel.   The brass insert was held in place by threaded brass screws in the center of the angle iron.  L&M Steel also drilled and milled the oval shaped mounting holed (three on each side).   I fabricated a frame to hold the 5 pieces in proper alignment for welding.   The pieces were welded, cleaned up and painted.  The new ram fit in place nicely and a new die key was fitted and installed.  

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Outstanding, ya done good on that one.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[Frosty]

Beautiful job! Have you run the hammer with it installed?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Goods]

Honestly, the drawing is just as impressive as the fabrication! I’m not much of a fabricator, but I have a lot that I should work on. I would just rather spend my time forging.

Let us know how it runs!

 

Keep it fun,

David