making a ladle? asking for help.

[GhostTownForge]

I'm about to make a ladle for my mom, but I don't know how to finish it. I have the forging process down but know next to nothing about how to make it food-safe.

the ladle bowl is going to be made out of brass, and the handle will be made out of mild steel, riveted together.

(not sure if this is the right place to put this discussion)

[George N. M.]

The problem with using a copper based metal for anything in contact with food is that it is a fairly reactive metal and the oxides/sulfides are not good to put into your body.  So, a brass or copper bowl is fine for, say, a water dipper but if she is using it to can tomatos (acidic) I would be concerned.

The traditional way of avoiding this problem is to tin the inside of any copper or brass bowl, ladle, etc. that is in contact with food.  I have never done it. So, I will leave it to you to research it.  I understand that it involves melting the tin (low melting point, IIRC you can use lead free tin solder) and brushing the molten metal around the inside of the vessel.

Personally, I would stay away from oils and products like Klear Kote for food.  Or use a lower reactive metal like steel (or gold or silver).

If it is just going to be a wall hanger "for nice" it doesn't matter but if it is going to be a user you need to consider food safety.

("Who was that ladle I saw you with last night?"  "That was no ladle. That was my knife.") (drum roll, bada boom!)

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[NoGoodWithUsernames]

For it to be technically food safe you will want to bring it to a reasonably high polish. You don't want areas that can harbor bacteria and such. For industry it is much more strict and has things like automated cleaning in mind where you have hundreds of feet of piping with various valves and pumps and sensors in line that all must be easily sanitized.

For something like a ladle that will be washed by hand most of that can be ignored. Just make sure it is reasonably smooth and doesn't have cracks or crevices that are difficult to clean after use. A quick google search looks like most riveted ladles have that connection point just big enough to get two rivets in up by the brim, so a pretty small overlap that will dry quickly and not allow growth in there. If you're really worried you could always fill it with some braze or solder material so nothing can get between the steel and brass, but I wouldn't bother personally. 

Edit: George was posting as I was, a good warning to not use with acidic foods. I had not thought of that aspect.

[GhostTownForge]

I read a book that said to etch it in dry acid from a swimming pool supply store and then wash it off in a baking soda/water mix. What would that achieve?

[Frosty]

No idea what dry pool acid on brass will do without knowing what kind of acid it is. Even then.

If you're going to sink a brass dipper be aware that brass work hardens abruptly. (I can't believe I'm going to say this twice in one day!) Depending on the pattern you use to sink the bowl you will get at MOST 3 passes. A pass being one round of blows to the surface. If you hit it a third time it is very likely to crack or break. Pay attention with your eyes, ears and holding hand you will feel it harden. 

I recommend making two passes the anneal, bring to dull red heat in a dim room. You can chill it with a dip in water or dilute pickle or start working it while it's still hot. Two, three MAX passes and repeat annealing.

You'll want a ball stake of some sort to bouge (planish) the bowl. A polished sphere small enough the dipper bowl will fit over it and use a leather mallet to hammer it smooth. Anneal before and after a pass or two. It's REALLY easy to lose track bougeing and let it work harden too much and crack it. This REALLY stinks as this is the last step before final sanding and polishing.

That's it 3 passes max and anneal. Pickle after annealing, look up a brand or recipe, I don't have a name, it's hiding in one f those wrinkles on my brain. <sigh> Bouge with a rawhide mallet on polished ball, a trailer hitch works nicely.  

Tin it if you're using it for food contact! Tin the whole thing, you can buy the compound. 

I JUST thought of this! Make sure the brass you buy is food safe! It's been at least a century since brass was just copper and zinc, modern "brass" is a stew of metals, many containing lead or worse. Food safe alloys are out there, just be sure you get one

There are "Yellow" bronze alloys that are more easily forged or hammer formed and food safe. Being a copper alloy it WILL work harden abruptly but may be more forgiving than my experience says brass is.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Daswulf]

To be safe in the food industry use stainless steel.other than cleanup and neutralization after forging it is as safe and neutral as can get. 

Just to say, I made a couple spatula flippers out of rr spike steel. I have used each of them after giving them a coating of first  walnut oil then after a few washes, olive oil. They get used on pancakes/french toast or on the grill with burgers.  Since I have used them and only washed, dried and put away and they do just fine. Only the occasional light stain of rust that wipes off with my finger or paper towel.   A light wipe with olive oil on rare occasion.  If treated right steel works just fine as long as it is clean and cleaned and dried after use. Oil as necessary. 

[GhostTownForge]

Okay, I'll have to look into that.