Beehive Kilns

[Scott NC]

  I did a search on here but did not find anything.  I have been re-searching silver mining in the old west boom and came across these.  Has anybody ever visited a place like this.  Interesting they wound up as stage coach bandit hideouts according to lore.  Talk about hard labor loading them.

https://www.archaeology.org/issues/503-2303/digs/11205-off-the-grid

[George N. M.]

Scott, there are ovens like this across the west.  Some were used to make charcoal from wood and some coke from coal.

Here is a link to a photo of some near Evanston, WY in the SW corner of the state:

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/GeorgeBeard/id/825/

There are also rectrangular ones, as opposed to the beehive shape, near Cokeville, WY, near where WY, UT, and ID come together:

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/GeorgeBeard/id/825/

Here are some beehives near Florence, AZ:

https://www.jeeptheusa.com/coke-ovens-30.html

Here are some in Carbon County, UT:

https://www.roadtripryan.com/go/t/other/odds-and-ends-area/coke-ovens

Here are some near Redstone, CO not far from Aspen and Glenwood Springs, which I have visited:

https://www.travelsandcuriosities.com/hidden-gems/redstone-coke-ovens

There is also one, partially collapsed, in the Roman Catholic Cemetery about a mile west of Central City, CO which I have visited.  https://www.travelsandcuriosities.com/hidden-gems/redstone-coke-ovens 

One reference says that it was built as a mausoleum for an Irishman before his body was shipped back to the "auld sod."  This may be true since it is just a single construction and the inside is not as blackened as others I have seen.  Whoever built it certainly had build beehive ovens previously.

There are coke ovens at Tercio and Cokedale, CO and IIRC some near Raton, NM.  

I think that in the fairly treeless west ther were more coke than charcoal ovens in use.  It's probable that nearly anywhere where coal was mined some of it was converted to coke if the coal had decent coking characteristics.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

 

[Scott NC]

  George, thanks for the reply and links.  I'm glad some of this still exists and some is being preserved.  I would have liked to have observed the ones in UT being loaded by railcar.  Manual coke unloading process, sounds like work.  The more I learn the more I realize what I don't know eg. beehives.  Also ore mills, smelters, etc.... I will visit some of these places first hand someday.  If they still exist.

[Frosty]

I don't know if I've been to this site or another one like it with 5-6 beehive charcoal ovens. The one I visited was in Nevada and East of Reno. I used to take a month of leave and spend much of it just driving around the lower 48 though I didn't go much farther East than mid Utah. I used to do a lot of sideroads and ranch access type roads, largely looking for blacksmithing tools. Anyway I recall seeing the tops of weird rounded cones poking over the trees on a ridge above the county(?) highway I was on so I took the next left and there they were along a dirt road. They looked just like the Ward ovens and may have been. There was an information board that Identified them as charcoal kilns and a brief bit about the mines. 

It's neat to see it or similar now, brings back good memories. I got my first leg vise that trip though I'm not sure where.

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

Scott, or anyone else interested in Western MIning history, I can recommend 3 books by Eric Twitty, all availble on Amazon for the prices incicated.

Blown to Bits in the Mine  $19.95

Riches to Rust  $26.36

Basins of Silver  $29.95

If anyone ever wants to tour some of the western mining districts, let me know.  I can either direct you or guide you to some cool places that not many folk see.  Same thing with western railroads.

George

[Scott NC]

  I think that a tour guided by you would be very interesting indeed.  Hopefully someday....  Thanks for the book recomendations.

  Speaking of railroads.... 

[Frosty]

I'm thinking of penciling in Laramie on our future snow bird map.

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

We'd love to host you.  By then we should have out guest quarters in shape.

GNM

[Frosty]

We'd be in the RV and minimum hassle. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Scott NC]

You got room for three?

[George N. M.]

Absolutely, but they may be in different rooms.  We plan for a queen bed (probably some sort of folding "hide a bed") in my office in the "garrden" level and the guest bedroom on the main floor will have a single bed.

Once we reach a point where everything is fixed up and Madelynn thinks it is safe (she is very covid cautious) I expect that we will be actively soliciting visitors and travelling.  I'm a fairly social guy and have been getting pretty lonely.  I don't know how I'd have gotten this far without IFI.

BTW, for anyone thinking of a Western trip and seeing Yellowstone absolutely try to plan your visit so that you are there before Memorial Day or after Labor Day.  In between it is packed with turistas and the traffic is horrible and the attractions over run.  Nobody from the area visits during that period.  Martha and I did once when we lived in Riverton (west central part of the state) and in all the cars (probably in the thousands) we saw in the oncoming traffic while we went from the South Gate to the Old Faithful area we saw only 2 or 3 Wyoming plates.  The other national parks in the region have a similar pattern but Yellowstone is the worst.  Rocky Mountain National Park has gone to a timed entry during the summer months. I suspect that Glacier has something similar.

GNM

[Frosty]

We were going to save Yellowstone till after they repair the roads.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Scott NC]

  Shoot, I could sleep on on the porch with a quilt.  Or rile things up i Jerry's RV.  You aren't the only one leaning on IFI these days.

[Frosty]

I think you'd rather not rile Deb up or you'd be sleeping under the RV. Of course if she takes a shine to you and I end up under the RV I'll keep you awake all night whining!

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

Frosty, they reopened the North Gate to Yellowstone NP and the road to Mammoth Hot Springs last fall.  I have an old college friend who is a naturalist (knows all the Yellowstone wolves by their first names and many of the elk and buffalo, too) in Gardnier, MT and he says that even a late reopening helped a lot of Gradnier businesses from going under.

G

[Frosty]

How are they coming on the roads? Deb's not happy about rough roads in Her RV. To visit Yosemite we'll probably have to rent a car or take a tour bus, the roads are too windy and narrow for her.

That's funny about naturalists, many know all the animals by name. Don't ask them how natural the animals are supposed to behave with naturalists so close they're on a first name basis. Of course no animals in parks with really heavy tourist loads act naturally, especially when touroids ignore laws and basic common sense by keeping dirty camps and feeding the critters.

Moose get REALLY pushing and demanding about treats some have done tap dances on cars that wouldn't pay the toll.

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

Every year there are folk in Yellowstone who earn their Darwin Awards by trying to pet or ride the fluffy cows, getting off the boardwalks and falling into a thermal feature, or various other very avoidable acts.  Just this summer they found a shoe with a foot still in it in a thermal feature but have no ID because no one has been reported missing in the area.

The organized camp grounds have fewer animal incidents because cleanliness and food storage are pretty strictly enforced.

I would suggest entering through the east (West Yellowstone, ID), south (Jackson Hole/Tetons, WY) or east (Cody, WY) entrances.  You will stay on paved roads the whole time then.  I believe the road from the north (Gardnier, MT) entrance as far as Mammoth Hot Springs can best be described as "graded gravel."  If and when you plan to go let me know and I can direct you to some of the best places, depending on your and Deb's interests.  Some folk like the geology and thermal features, some come for the wildlife, and some like the scenic views.

It is possible to stay or camp outside the park and day trip in to see the features.  Most of the places to stay in the park, e.g. Yellowstone Lodge, require reservations to be made about a year in advance for the summer season.  Soulder seasons are probably less but I wouldn't count on walk up stays anytime of the year.

All that said, Yellowstone is a world class destination and everyone should see it at least once in their lives, more if they can swing it.  I would budget a minimum of 3-4 days to really "do" Yellowstone.  More if you want to do anything in the back country.

G

[George N. M.]

PS I was being lysdexic geographically.  The west entrance to Yellowston NP is, obviously at West Yellowstone, MT, NOT the east entrance.  Duh!

G

[BillyBones]

I would take a spot on the porch with Scot or a place in the barn, heck under a tree on the back 40 sounds good.

When you talk of the folks that want to get up close and personal with the fluffy cows, it makes me think of that scene in "The Great Outdoors" with Jon Candy at the bear dump. 

 

[Frosty]

Not a problem George, I don't follow directions anyway but to prove I am in touch with my feminine side, I do ask locals if I can't figure the maps out. 

I think two people were killed by fluffy cows in Yellowstone, what, last year or the year before.

Watching the dump bears is a pretty normal form of entertainment in many if not most villages. Dump bears tend to be pretty mellow so long as humans don't do something stupid. If it's a busy bear day they'll sit a little way from you while you unload the garbage and move in when you pull away. Just sit in your vehicle and watch the show. Sometimes locals chase bears away from good stuff if it isn't food.

Speaking of fluffy cows our version are Musk Ox and while they're generally pretty good at ignoring people if you cause them to circle up you REALLY want to back off or you're likely to get visited by one. Bulls tend to bluff charge or muscle you off but a cow will attack to kill. The only safe way to get close to musk ox is at the "Musk Ox Farm in Palmer, Ak." about 45 miles north of Anchorage or 35 East of me in Wasilla. The name is a good search term if you're visiting it's well worth the drive.

Another "wild" critter farm down the Seward Hwy, maybe 50 miles is dedicated to reestablishing the Woodland Bison and have successfully established several herds around the state. 

The reindeer farm in Palmer is literally a reindeer farm but has tours. I highly recommend them too, reindeer are surprisingly gentle. Even standing in a shall herd of say 7-10 in a fenced pen you won't get nudged let alone bumped. They will nuzzle looking for a reindeer feed hand out though. The few they own that don't like people or don't love children aren't in the petting pens. 

Unfortunately lots of nit wits try to pet wild critters, especially moose. Second only to teens texting while they drive moose are the most dangerous critter in Alaska. They alone kill more people than all the others put together.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[George N. M.]

I recall a story about a guy who had a herd of musk oxen and was out feeding them when someone in a strange pickup showed up.  The musk oxen form a defensive circle around him to protect him from the potential danger.

We have a fair number of moose in Wyoming and Colorado, not as many as AK but respectable.  And they don't all hang out around boggy places.  Martha and I had one come through out camp on the side of a mountain about 200 vertical feet below timberline once.  A surprise and cool but it also focused our attention.  Moose and horses are about the worst thing to hit on the highway because of their size and the fact that with their long legs they will flip up on to your hood and come through the windshield.  Not good.

Most of the folk who do potentially lethal things in Yellowstone are not westerners.  They are usually from the urban parts of the east or from overseas.  Not always but more often than not.

GNM

[Scott NC]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:04 PM, Frosty said:

I think you'd rather not rile Deb up or you'd be sleeping under the RV. Of course if she takes a shine to you and I end up under the RV I'll keep you awake all night whining!

  I changed my my attitude.  I'd never dream of riling you or Deb, be assured I'd be on my best behavior around her, but might be tempted to raz you a bit....

[Frosty]

Musk oxen domesticate pretty easily, they've even been used as draft animals. I can sure see a herd circling up to protect their farmer. The ones at the Musk Ox farm are pretty tame and love a good hard scratching around the horns but you have to be careful the way they lay, if they shake their head or turn quickly it can catch your hand and you won't slow them down one little bit.

Don't worry Scott, Deb has a sense of humor especially if it's directed at me. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Scott NC]

  I found this interesting.   There is so much out there to learn.

https://www.iup.edu/library/departments/archives/coal/mining-history/history-of-coke.html

[George N. M.]

Interesting.  I hadn't realized that there were operating beehive ovens up until the '70s.

G