Self Contained Power Hammer Lowest Operating Temperature Limit?

[CGomer33]

Hey there,

I am probably spending too much time thinking about this... would anyone happen to know from experience (or other sources that I have yet to find) whats the lowest temperature one shall be using a self contained power hammer? I have looked at several articles and read many things from "If it's too cold it could crack the frame or dies" to, "It won't get cold enough to matter". In January the temperatures can easily be around -20F or lower for the lows, I start working at 6am when the low temps are still present.

I bought a new self contained power hammer that is due to arrive in January 2023. I work full time as a blacksmith in a dirt floor shop with no heat/insulation. I just want to make sure I can use the power hammer. I have a self built leaf spring power hammer that seems to work okay in the extreme cold but I have no experience with self contained power hammers. I have asked the manufacturer if there was a point where it's too cold to use but they only said to change to a lighter oil. So, should I worry about the frame or dies cracking? I could preheat it if need be though I hope letting it run for 15 minutes before use would be enough.

I would greatly appreciate any advice!
Cameron

[George N. M.]

Welcome aboard, Cameron, from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

What part of Minnesota are you in.  My mother was from Duluth and I have family in Mankato.  If I couldn't live in the Rocky Mountain region Minnestota would be on my short list, particularly the Duluth/North Shore area.

Here is a link to an old publication regarding materials in artic conditions:  https://collections.dartmouth.edu/arctica-beta/html/EA02b-02.html  It seems that steel gets brittle around -40 degrees F.  That said, I, in an excess of caution, wouldn't operate a high impact machine like a power hammer much below 0 degrees F, even if I could stand to be working in temperatures that cold without degrading my abilities.

Another reference I found said that steel becomes brittle at -30 degrees C (-22 F).

Also, don't forget that even if the air temperature has warmed up the temperature of the metal may still be well below that if it got really cold at night.  If it was -20 at night and 0 during the day a large mass of metal may not reach 0 until noon or later.  

Rather than pushing the environmental envelope with a piece of expensive equipment like a power hammer I think I would try to put resouces into getting at least some heat into my shop.  Wood stoves are pretty simple, particularly if you build something like a barrel stove and even a propane fired salamander isn't very expensive (IIRC about $100 for a 50k BTU model).

Frosty (from AK) will probably have some advice and experience regarding operating equipment at sub zero temperatures.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Cameron, glad to have you. What you really have to be careful about with steel in severe cold is flexing, I've had 1/2" rebar snap off in my hand and one of the guys at the service station either forgot or ignored the rule about NEVER pushing on a flat surface and stuck his hand through a trunk lid pushing a dead car into the shop bay.

There should be minimal flexion in a power hammer outside springs and such. Dies should be okay as long as you're not working the edges with cold stock. If you're concerned heat up a reasonably large piece of steel, keep it under 400f you don't want to run the temper, and clamp it in the dies while you prep for the days work. I've tried magnetic, electric engine heaters and they don't seem to make much difference. 

I solved  my cold weather issues by not working in the cold but I'm a hobbyist and don't have to.

A light synthetic oil that stays fluid at low temps solves a lot of issues.

Frosty The Lucky.

[CGomer33]

Thanks for the advice George and Frosty. Appreciate it. I will use a lighter oil like you suggested and I have a propane nipco I could use to heat the hammer if needed. If I decide to not use the hammer on the extreme cold days I guess I could do some production runs of some items that I will need the hammer for on the warmer days. I guess I will see how it all is after I receive it.

To answer your question George. I live in the SE of MN about an hour from Mankato but will be moving up north sometime next year where I will have a heated shop as well so I will not have to worry about the cold at all then! Been to Dubois and Jackson Hole many times over the last years, have family there. I always said if I had to live elsewhere besides MN, it would be in WY.

Thanks kindly,
Cameron

 

[George N. M.]

You're welcome for the advice, for what it may be worth.

I hope you stick around on the forum.  There are a great group of folk here and there are few things, either blacksmithing or life issues, that someone does not have some expertise about.  Ages range from early teens to 80s.  Education from drop outs to advanced degrees.  About all you have to steer clear of is politics, religion, and sex.  And keep your language appropriate for a 10 year old daughter or granddaughter.

I grew up in Chicago and am really glad I landed where I did.  I much prefer the mountains to the flat midwest.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

You're welcome Cameron, it's my pleasure. Please do stick around, there is no doubt you know plenty of things I'd love to put in my mental tool kit.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

14 hours ago, CGomer33 said:

I have a propane nipco I could use to heat the hammer if needed. If I decide to not use the hammer on the extreme cold days I guess I could do some production runs of some items that I will need the hammer for on the warmer days. I guess I will see how it all is after I receive it.

Good plan.

Fred Crist posted on Facebook a day or two ago about how cranky the heating system was at the old Yellin shop, so in winter they would crank up the gas forges on the first floor to heat up the fabrication shop on the second floor!

(That's "ground floor" and "first floor" for the Europeans in our midst.)

[arkie]

1 hour ago, JHCC said:

(That's "ground floor" and "first floor" for the Europeans in our midst.)

Our local hospital added on a large addition at a slightly lower elevation than the original building.  The first time I got on one of the new elevators it said the same thing..."Ground Floor", "First Floor", etc....  That really messed with my mind; had to rethink where I was supposed to go!  In addition to that, the new parking garage elevator had Braille characters under each floor button....I often wondered how a person who needed to use Braille managed to drive into the garage!  (probably an ADA requirement)

[CGomer33]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I have actually been here for years, just living in the shadows ( so to speak ) without an account since I typically found all I needed. But just had to finally make an account and make a new topic for my question. Perhaps I will be more active now as well. This website is an invaluable resource for anything blacksmith related, really glad I found it.

 

5 hours ago, JHCC said:

Good plan.

Fred Crist posted on Facebook a day or two ago about how cranky the heating system was at the old Yellin shop, so in winter they would crank up the gas forges on the first floor to heat up the fabrication shop on the second floor!

(That's "ground floor" and "first floor" for the Europeans in our midst.)

Well isn't that interesting. I suppose if it works, why not!

Cameron