Farriers forge?

[banjobend]

Hey there,

First time poster. I bought a forge at an estate sale, been using it for a few years.  I think it was mainly used for farrier work. Anyone recognize this unit?

Also, I'm starting to do more forging and no matter how hard I try, I cannot forge weld mild steel. I have made a couple pattern welded blades with random high carbon steels, but I can't get mild to weld. Seems like the forge isn't hot enough. Should I bag it and buy a better forge or attempt to improve what I have? Or maybe this is a good forge and I have other problems?

 

Thanks for helping.

[George N. M.]

Welcome aboard, Banjo, from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

First, if you put your general location in your profile we can give you better answers to your questions.  This is a world wide forum and we don't know if you are in Lapland or Tasmania.

Yes it is possible that your gasser is not getting hot enough.  If that is the case I think the easiest solution would be to get a basic sold fuel forge.  Look up JABOD (Just A Box Of Dirt) forges.  You can put one together with very little work and expense.  You can use coal, coke, or sharcoal as a fuel and can get to welding temperature simply by adding more air to the combustion.

BTW, nice cleaver.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Mikey98118]

Well, before you go through a lot of expense to replace or rebuild your present forge, you should try adding two full bricks and a third brick sawed in half, to create a movable wall in front of the forge, and about 1" away from it, to allow exhaust gases to escape, while bouncing all that radiant energy back into the forge, which you are presently losing. You can also paint a re-emissive coating on the side of the bricks that face the forge, but I think you will get everything you want from just the brick baffle wall.

But hey; if you're just looking for an excuse to spend a bunch of money, go right ahead and buy a new forge. We don't mind

[banjobend]

48 minutes ago, George N. M. said:

Welcome aboard, Banjo, from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

First, if you put your general location in your profile we can give you better answers to your questions.  This is a world wide forum and we don't know if you are in Lapland or Tasmania.

Yes it is possible that your gasser is not getting hot enough.  If that is the case I think the easiest solution would be to get a basic sold fuel forge.  Look up JABOD (Just A Box Of Dirt) forges.  You can put one together with very little work and expense.  You can use coal, coke, or sharcoal as a fuel and can get to welding temperature simply by adding more air to the combustion.

BTW, nice cleaver.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

I live in central Oregon.

I lease my shop and I'm not sure my landlord would be too excited about us running a solid fuel forge there. The fire marshal didn't even like seeing the propane forge inside.

[Frosty]

I have a friend who uses one just like it and welds routinely and seeing as he's a farrier so welding horse shoe mild steel is almost everyday. Yours might need relining but what Mike suggests is similar to what Mark does with his. He often closes half his forge with a brick and welds in it running one burner.

Those are excellent burners and will flat out scream HEAT. I sure wish I could remember who makes them. I THINK new forges, liner kits and parts are available. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Actually, I would like for someone to tell us who makes them too; they seem well built, and that's always a good sign

[banjobend]

44 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said:

Well, before you go through a lot of expense to replace or rebuild your present forge, you should try adding two full bricks and a third brick sawed in half, to create a movable wall in front of the forge, and about 1" away from it, to allow exhaust gases to escape, while bouncing all that radiant energy back into the forge, which you are presently losing. You can also paint a re-emissive coating on the side of the bricks that face the forge, but I think you will get everything you want from just the brick baffle wall.

But hey; if you're just looking for an excuse to spend a bunch of money, go right ahead and buy a new forge. We don't mind

I have tried blocking off most of the opening, however I put the bricks right against it, not spaced off. 

I have seen that I can reapply refractory cement, is that really worth it?

This forge has been really good to us and want to keep it going.

 

[Mikey98118]

Patching compound or Plistex mixed with less water is a much better idea. Nearly all refractory cements are unfit to use as flame faces. I say "nearly all," because seller descriptions aren't necessarily correct; otherwise, I would make no exceptions

[Frosty]

I'll have to shoot Mark an email and ask. Of course I've asked him so many times AND written it down where I won't forget.  . . <sigh>

Those forges have a more complicated liner than a layer of refractory. Please try to get the term refractory "Cement" out of your vocabulary, cement is for cementing things like brick together it's not suitable as a flame face refractory. Unfortunately too many manufacturers are bowing to popular vernacular and calling their refractories. "Refractory Cement." Marketing departments. <sigh>

Those forges use an insulating board and IIRC, ceramic blanket though it's thin. it's been a while since I looked inside Mark's forge so I'm not sure. 

Were it mine I'd be tempted to reline it with Morgan Thermal Ceramics, split K-28 insulating fire brick. It cuts with a hand saw, you can use a hole saw to drill burner ports and just the bare IFBs are up to welding heat. But I'd apply a kiln wash flame face and as has been brought to our attention ITC seem to have a very useable product. Two used in  conjunction actually, ITC-100 ht and over that ITC 296A. If I'm remembering that right. 

I had to do some chores and have lost my train of thought, I apologize but just couldn't finish earlier and now what I was thinking is lost in a TBI survivor's fog. I've re-read what I'm posting and it's fundamentally sound and I've written a not to contact Mark. Hopefully one of the many farriers on the forum will let us know the maker of your forge.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

Those forges use an insulating board and IIRC, ceramic blanket though it's thin. it's been a while since I looked inside Mark's forge so I'm not sure. 

Diamondback forges (which are famously long lasting and low maintenance) also use insulating board. I don't normally think of ceramic board as a good candidate for being called "long lasting." Nevertheless, what can we do in the face of proven facts

[Frosty]

Tinker till it's . . . Uh, Nevermind.

Frosty The Lucky.

[banjobend]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:34 AM, Frosty said:

Were it mine I'd be tempted to reline it with Morgan Thermal Ceramics, split K-28 insulating fire brick.

I think this is what I'm gonna do, the inside of mine is pretty beat up anyway. 

 

I'm assuming the K-28 brick is different from the wood stove brick I can buy at the local hardware store? Or will the wood stove brick work?

[Frosty]

Oh yes, VERY different. Fireplace brick is relatively low temperature brick and won't last in temps much above dull red.

Morgan, K-28 are insulating firebrick that will withstand a prolonged max working temp of 2,800f without breaking up from the rapid thermal changes a propane forge makes and they remain reasonably hard and abrasion resistant. 

A layer of hard flame face kiln wash and they'll last a good length of time. I don't know how long, I have Morgan K-26 (2,600f rated) IFBs as parts of my forge for a few years now and they're going strong.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

don't forget to finish coat seal the bricks with Plistix 900. Unlike like the old style hard firebricks, insulating firebricks are all porous, some more than others; that isn't desirable in a flame face. Also Plistix is rated for way higher temperatures than any insulting brick, and is considered as a heat reflecting coating; this is all good for forge efficiency, and for lengthening the life of those bricks.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

On 12/10/2022 at 7:59 PM, banjobend said:

Anyone recognize this unit?

I knew I recognized it but couldn't at the time remember the name. Been a few threads about them. Here is one I remembered (scary) when not thinking about it.

 

[banjobend]

After looking at this post I found some info on my forge. It says that it works best with 12-15psi of propane. I think I was running my regular at full pressure, 30psi if I remember correctly. Could that be causing my inability to weld?

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.

[George N. M.]

Very possibly.  There is sweet spot for propane pressure in a forge wh8ch gives the best heat and uses the least fuel.  I think that too much would cool the flame a bit which might be your problem.  Experiement.  Time how long it takes to bring a standard sized piece of steel from cold to, say, orange, at various temperatures.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[banjobend]

Thanks for the help everyone! Apparently i must be doing this forum thing wrong though. Sorry if I used the quote feature incorrectly.

 

Signing out.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning Banjo,

I have a similar Forge, except mine has only one burner. The style of Burner, I also have, it is called a 'Rex-o-Therm' burner. I got mine from a local supplier of Furnace parts. Sometimes the hardest thing to do with a Forge is 'Turn it down'. You don't necessarily need to crank it up to smoking hot, roaring hot. Sometimes, just enough is perfect.

Enjoy the Journey, there is no Destination! The competition is between our ears.

Neil