oberon Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Hello Everyone, I am new to the site and wanted to introduce myself. As you can see my username is Oberon, I live in Glen Carbon IL about 30 minutes from St. Louis. I have been interested in forging for many years. As with a lot of people my first interest was in swords but at the time that my first interest started I was deployed to Iraq and had just finished watching a bootleg copy of the Highlander series in my off duty hours. So let's just say the timing wasn't right. Since then years have passed and I still haven't started for one reason or another and now I am trying to accumulate as much knowledge to get started as possible. I read the start here article and have a lot of digging to do on the site. I cant wait to get in and read some of the other articles. I have several books already but I was curious if anyone had any recommendations for reading on starting a forge, blacksmithing, bladesmithing, or just books that have diagrams or pictures of items such as knives or tools that I could start with. Another dilemma that I am running into is a forge space to start with. I live in a neighborhood with a .21 acre lot. So not very large. I have a 3 car garage with one side completely unused. My concern is for safety purposes, is this the right place to build a forge? On top of that would be the sound concern, disturbing the neighbors. I suppose if I can't do it here I will continue looking for a place to rent or pay to use. But I wanted to get other's thoughts on the space and whether it would be something I could do. I haven't bought the forge yet or an anvil but am capable of doing so once I know I can safely do this in my garage. Again, I am really looking forward. to getting in here and digging around to read articles. I am excited to meet people who are new and experienced with forging and make some friends in the process. Thanks everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Welcome from the Ozark mountains. I remember an old blacksmith that got me started told me, the first $1000 dollars should be spent on books. I sure miss him, a master blacksmith Isaac Doss, passed on in 1991 who did demonstrations at the Smithsonian Institute when he was younger. This section will help with some questions. https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/174-reference-materials/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Books, articles and videos are all helpful (once you know what you are looking for), but nothing beats taking an in person class. I would definitely look into that before spending anything on tools or equipment. Noise on a small lot is certainly a concern, as is building a forge in a structure attached to your home. Ventilation, code and safety issues will need consideration. Half of a 3 car garage is a great size for a home forge, but whatever else is stored there will get dirty. As far as books go, I would recommend the "Backyard Blacksmith" for beginning general forging and Jim Hrisoulas's books for sword smithing (though you have a long way to go before being ready for the latter). There are also some great articles on this site regarding these topics, but you may have to dig to get the info you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Welcome from The Tar Heel state! Just a few sections down from here is the Book Review section that may give you some ideas. Some newer stuff, some older. Good Luck! https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/40-book-reviews/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Welcome aboard Oberon, glad to have you. Do you have a nickname, handle, name, etc. you prefer? I can pretty well guarantee we'll be calling you Obi in no time without one. "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" by Alexander Weygers is a good book, especially for improvising tools and shop equipment. He also talks about how he made tools in remote locations around the world. A wildly talented man a true polymath. His explanations are pretty easy to understand it's not a modern book though so some info is pretty dated. Not to be nit picky but . . . (There's always a but eh?) Calling your shop a "Forge" is correct but it's more commonly used to refer to where the fire is. Coal, charcoal, propane, etc. Forge using the one term interchangeably is confusing for new folks and Iforge has some 50,000 members in around 150 countries in all corners of the globe. A few things to consider using your garage are: 1, flammable materials, the gas in your car, lawn mower, etc. not to mention a gas can can be a B A D thing with sparks and HOT cutoffs flying through the air. And YES, HOT trimmings and small cut pieces WILL fly through the air. 2, is forge exhaust, no matter what it burns it produces exhaust gasses coal smoke is probably the safest it stinks but charcoal is odorless and produces CO and CO2 in quantity while consuming oxygen. Propane produces DO prodigiously and CO is insidious, it gets in everything everywhere. If the garage is attached CO WILL infiltrate it. GOOD ventilation is a MUST. 3, noise is a concern for sure but if you do the hammer work in the garage it will go a long way towards damping it. Keep the forge on the driveway and anvil in the garage. Hmmmm? There is more LOTS more but that's a start on the big picture. My first recommendation for action is to join the local blacksmith club, attend a couple meetings or maybe hammer ins and get to know the guys. There are probably a couple at least within reasonable driving distance so you can get some hands on time with an experienced smith to tell you what you're doing wrong and do some demonstrating. Every hour you spend with an experienced smith is worth many hours even days of trying to figure it out yourself. You'll be amazed what a simple suggestion can do for you. I was yakking with one of the guys at our local club's meeting last Saturday and a beginner was making the demo project, a "blacksmith's knife" and he was working the cheeks in the center of the anvil's face. He was making okay progress but there are better ways. Sooooo, I showed him how to hold the knife on the edge of the anvil and strike with "half face" blows. That is a blow where half the hammer's face is off the edge of the anvil. That means the hammer NEVER wastes energy striking the anvil and the energy is concentrated on the project. It's WAY faster and more controllable than working the center of the face. For this shape. Just a couple words and "hold it like this," is all it took and he had a blade ready for the grinder in a few minutes. Nothing will get you up to speed at the anvil like hanging with the local smiths. Oh and do NOT stress over getting things "right" or finding the "right" tool or, or. This is fun, relax and enjoy the ride, Obi. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Howdy from eastern Oklahoma and welcome to the forum! My vote is also to hook up with someone in your region and get some hands on time in before buying anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming. Glad to have you. We all started out at one time or another. Some of us have been hitting steel for decades and some are noobs. 1/3-1/2 of a 3 car garage is plenty of space. Forging in an urban neighborhood can pose some issues. Actually hitting hot iron is not that noisy. It gets louder with power tools and if you miss a blow and ring your anvil. This is why there are lots of ways to dampen the sound of a loud anvil. Odor and smoke can be a problem if you are using a coal forge. That is why I went to using coke some years ago. Charcoal is also pretty odorless. As Frosty points out, carbon monoxide is always an issue. So, one or more CO detectors should be one of your early purchases. CO is heavier than air and will settle into your basement. So, make sure that you have a detector on the lowest level of your house if you do not have one already. And if it goes off don't go down there to investigate. You shouldn't be put off by the risk but be aware of the issue and respect it. You may also have to run a chimney or vent through your roof or out of a window. If, like some houses, there is a living area above the garage this can get problematic. Depending on your area you could rent a garage, storage unit, or shop space away from your house. I had to do that when I lived in apartments. Time, distance, and security issues can all be a problem. If you do rent a space make sure you get a lease rather than just a month to month arrangement. The books recommended are all good. I also like Country Blacksmithing by Charlie McRaven. There are reprints of older books around but many were originally written for professional blacksmiths 120+ years ago and are not that much help for a 21st century beginner. I hope that you find the craft as engaging as most of us have. I've been at it for 44 years and it has been a very good outlet in good times and bad. And finally, I add to the previous suggestions of hooking up with a local group. I and others here were self taught and that is definitely 2d best compared to in person learning. If you watch a demonstration in person or on a video go do it as soon as you can. That develops muscle/kinesthetic memory which lasts longer and is easier to recall than just mental memory. BTW, say hi to Titania. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 I think we all thought that George but. . . Carbon monoxide disperses evenly throughout the air column, it doesn't settle nor rise. The following link will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about CO. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21536403/ Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Well, live and learn, Frosty. Thanks for the link. Now I know something that I didn't when I woke up this morning. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 I'm glad this detail came up again, dispersing this way makes CO a lot more dangerous than if it settled in low spots. Settling was what most everybody I knew thought it did till someone set us straight though I don't recall where or who. I don't know how many 1st. aid classes I took, Dad taught and we were supposed to get the victim out of the structure and off the ground so CO wouldn't creep out and get us all. We can't talk about CO too much, we tend to generate it like crazy. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Not only that, but the dispersion of CO will most likely vary quite a bit depending on the temperature of the exhaust stream where it is being created. In the experiment cited it was unclear at what temperature the CO was introduced to the space, but most likely was close to or below room temperature. My expectations for CO generated by our forges it that it would rise rapidly to the shop peak due to the buoyancy effect, then diffuse downwards as the exhaust airstream cools. In many cases this would make it more insidious and potentially dangerous. Still this is only a theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 I think you're right, the exhaust plume from my forges starts in excess of 2,000f., CO being very close to neutral buoyancy would have to mean it will rise with the other gasses in the plume and disperse. Could be wrong but I don't think so. It'd be easy enough to check if one wanted to buy and install 3 or 4 CO sensors. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 As far as propane forges go they put out way more CO than is the maximum exposure level which is 50 ppm per an 8 hour time span. I had my HAVAC technician check our forge after it had been running for about an hour and it was putting out 900 ppm 6 feet from the exhaust. That is why we only use it outside the shop with a breeze or fan running. This chart will explain a lot from Kidde CO alarms. It's a good informational link but may get removed because it is from a commercial firm but not advertising. https://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/support/help-center/browse-articles/articles/what_are_the_carbon_monoxide_levels_that_will_sound_the_alarm_.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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