Safe Distance-Fire Protection

[racer3j]

Like many here, I want to work in my garage. Like many here, the perimeter of the 2 1/2 car garage is a blend of more tools, but also wood, boxes of books, lawnmowers, gas jugs and the other usual stuff.
What do you folks stick with for a safety circle around the forge and the anvil-especially those who forge weld with the sparks?
How many fire extinguishers and type? In all of the years that I torch and mig welded in a smaller garage, I had an extinguisher by the garage door, actually one at each side and then one at the service door- all properly mounted for no digging -fumbling access. I am thinking I should do the same here- I hate the white powder types. The foam style are reasonably priced and a CO2 would be nice but usually available through a fire service and I recall that they are pricey.
So, comments?mike

[HWooldridge]

My shop is built expressly for metal work so the building is entirely metal and no flammables around. Still, an unplanned fire starts somewhere every few years. Usually it's a glove or rag with just enough stuff in it to catch a spark. Both scale and grinder sparks are sufficient to start blazes. I once had a grinder spark go through an open window that was not screened and start a grass fire in the yard. Not to discourage anyone, but you really need to be very careful about working in an area like a garage where a spark can fly, smolder for a few minutes and then flare up while you are in the house taking a break.

Plain water extinguishers are good for the usual fires in a shop and any of the foam or dry chemicals are also fine so it's whatever you are comfortable using during a crisis.

[Dave M]

Boy talk about timing, I was just going to post about a small fire I had to day. I was doing some grinding in my shop when I smelled burning wood and in an all wood shop that smell makes you stop every thing. The shop started to get smokey so I killed the lights to see if I could find the fire or what was going to become a fire. Low and behold the area by my table saw is a blaze on the other side of the shop. I hit that fire with a bucket of water from my slack tub. This was all my fault for not sweeping up last week after cutting a lot of trim, one of those "I will clean it later deals". This is some thing that has worried me because I use my shop to do a lot of non-blacksmithing things. But in the words of my grandfather " a clean shop is a safe shop". When I find some more cash I will close up my walls with fire rated sheetrock, then I might not worry as much. So my welding area has a class C medium size just in case one of the units melts down and my breaker panel has a small class C mounted by it. Then I have 2 class A,B's in medium size mounted to the walls around the shop. So that gives me a total of 4 in the shop plus a garden hose. I would rather have them and not need them then need them and not have them, plus I hate when I catch fire and some one has to beat me out with a shovel or 2X4.:rolleyes:

Edited August 3, 2008 by Dave M

[Bentiron1946]

Fire can be a bit of a problem with working in the garage. Out here in the warm part of Arizona at least in the winter you can work outside most all year but there are times when you want to work inside. My insurance agent being the wise butt that he is has a clause in my policy that prohibits welding, forging or other spark producing activities within 15' of the garage opening. The down side of this is now all of these activities have to take place outside. I guess that is OK as you can't walk in my garage any more anyway.:cool:

[Rob Browne]

I am lucky in that my forge is a dedicated tin shed so fire is not a great threat BUT I have a tap and hose connected just outside the door incase its needed. Mainly for the roof insulation or the grass when its dry.

Edited August 4, 2008 by rmcpb

[racer3j]

I have been on fire twice. Both methanol in relative daylight. My wife said she never saw me move so fast getting out of the harness and diving out of the car. The second time I had installed a Halon bottle( quite the sin in the sprint car community where light weight is sacred). As I bailed I pulled the emergency "t" and as friends dumped water on me I stood there( after I was "Put out") and watched that darn bottle just kind of intermittently spit- no overcoming fog of halon. Now, that will get your attention and your goat!

In some ways the wierdest racing fire in which I "participated" was a driveline failure that lit a largish magnesium pivot ball into a flare between my feet/legs that burned a hole through the sheet aluminum floor pan. It glowed in the dusk and my wife ,in passing, noticed a proximity to family items of potentially diamond like value. Ever try to extinguish a mag. fire?-we knew enough not to try water. We just stood around slack jawed and noted a certain greenish cast to the glow.
I am glad I provoked thought. Guess I'll stay with rolling out onto the driveway- after all, that is why my forge is on a mig cart and my anvil is on wheels too. Come December, could someone refer me to specialized below zero smithing wear?? mike

Edited August 4, 2008 by racer3j
typo prox...

[nc_cooter]

The best all around fire extinguisher is an ABC rated dry chemical. Water or pressurized water fire extinguishers should be used with great caution in a shop. The reason? ELECTRICITY!
My shop is in a shed building, separate from the house. That being said, I have a 2 1/2 gal pressurized water and a 10 lb ABC dry chemical fire extinguisher in the 12'x24' hot work part of my shop. It has a crushed stone floor and all receptacles are 6' from floor level.
The 10'x24' wooden floor part of my shop has a 10lb ABC and a 5lb ABC dry chemical.

[triw]

Racer with all that flamable stuff in your garage I would look into a portable forge. I know a spark can smoulder fot a while if it went into the right material. With gas, etc being stored in the garage seems to me you would want to forge in the open.

[racer3j]

As I rolled my forges and anvil onto the concrete apron of the driveway, I just started thinking about winter and when I took a break from what ended up being woodworking stuff, I posted the question. I have the tubular framework for one of those "Portable Garages." As winter comes in I think I will set it up and use lattice with borax treated canvas sides. At least I'll be able to warm my hands at will. Early on I liked the safety conscious attitude of this group- not paranoid, but, common sense.

I can sit back and chuckle at the magnesium fire- the other two were very scary and sizable second degree burns hurt- they call them fireproof suits. An $850 two layer fleece or three layer nomex/kevlar give time before burning in seconds. They are retardant suits. 18-20 seconds is about it in an enveloped fire so the two methanol fires are not easy to put aside. On the other hand, I got the time I paid for. mike

[Glenn]

I want to work in my garage. Like many here, the perimeter of the 2 1/2 car garage is a blend of more tools, but also wood, boxes of books, lawnmowers, gas jugs and the other usual stuff. What do you folks stick with for a safety circle around the forge and the anvil-especially those who forge weld with the sparks?

Racer, Let me see, you been on fire a couple of times, had a magnesium fire, and now are playing in the fire.

I have seen grinding sparks go 20+ feet, welding spudder balls roll under all sorts of things, and forge welding sparks set frayed blue jeans on fire (don't ask).

Even if the fire department was next door and manned 24 hours a day, they would not even suit up till someone saw the smoke and called it in. My suggestion for how close to place these hot sparks to wood, boxes of books, lawnmowers, gas jugs and the other usual stuff would be at least one zip code in distance. If that is not possible, common sence and safety precautions should prevail. Estimate the travel distance of the sparks and ignition point of the fumes, take the greater distance and then triple it, then add a little more for safety.

There are several fire fighters on the site, give us guidance based on your skill and expertise.

[Jerry W.]

It is best to keep the majority of the combustibles well away from your work area. It would be best if the lawnmowers and gas jugs were stored in a building totally separated from the garage and living areas. This would be a good place for any propane bottles or chemicals that need to be stored also. If flammable liquids or electrical equipment is involved the ABC extinguisher is the best and safest route. These are a good start but, if at all possible, I would want water and plenty of it. In most cases you will still need water when you overhaul the burned area to complete the extinguishment. Schools and businesses have fire drills for a reason. Situations such as these are much more survivable when we plan ahead....
Jerry

[ThomasPowers]

I spent 15 years with my smithy in a decrepit 1920's detached garage. Tinder dry wood, no electricity. I stuck a piece of sheet steel behind the anvil to keep hot stuff from dropping down where I couldn't see it but still ended up splashing a lot of water around just to be sure.

Several months after I finally moved away it burned when the next owner was just using it for storage---very odd...

My new smithy is in a building with no wood in it's construction---much more relaxing!

Edited August 4, 2008 by ThomasPowers

[rjbrash]

Racer,

We use MG (powder)for fuel in our rocket propellant. We have 200 lb drums of the stuff (stored properly in a bunker) and are VERY CAREFUL when mixing propellant. Glad you didn't use water. A propellant plant in Utah went up in a nice fireball when the fire department dropped water on a minor fire. Didn't know about the drum of MG sitting in back. Our setup is to dump a load of sand on any MG fire and get the xxxx out of the building and far away.