Mikey98118 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: I learned that from Frosty when setting our Bubble Alumina. Are you referring to Kast-O-lite, or another refractory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panik Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said: Great summation As to kast-O-lite into ceramic wool problems; I have always cast my castable refractory parts, just to avoid the kind of headaches you're encountering. On the other hand, plenty of others hand lay up the refractory layer. I think hand laying up the refractory would be far easier for you, if you rigitize the ceramic wool blanket first. Good catch on the Kaowool! I hadn't noticed it until you mentioned it. I would swear up and down that I buttered and rigidized each layer as I put them in..... Apparently that's not the case, or I didn't use enough. On the plus side with the back off I can wet and then reapply rigidizer and cap the whole thing with Cast-o-Lite. I have seen online many nice examples of hand lay ups and I may again try it sometime, but for now I'm liking the idea of all the figidity stuff being front loaded in making the forms and filling them being limited to making sure the wet stuff gets to where it needs to be with a proper tamping. 2 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: When laying up the Kast-O-Lite by hand it needs to be tamped (like concrete) to set the aggregate into the mix and get a smoother finish. I just tamp it with my fingers. I learned that from Frosty when setting our Bubble Alumina. Lol, yup.... the back wall was actually tamped with a dowel. I still like the idea of mini forges.... but when the inside volume is roughly the diameter of my closed fist and I'm having to work around two pipes being used a forms for ports it got really difficult for me to appropriately tamp the side walls. Working with it is an interesting mix between working with clay and concrete. I kinda shot myself in the foot with limiting the amount of space I had to work with when coating the interior. Ehh, it was a great learning experience for doing better next time and with some tweaks I should still have a reasonably functional first forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 The Bubble Alumina we were working with is very similar to Kast-O-Lite with spherical beads as aggregate, just white instead of grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panik Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 A quick comment I should have included earlier. I very much appreciate y’all being willing to share encouragement, knowledge and critics. My thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: The Bubble Alumina we were working with is very similar to Kast-O-Lite with spherical beads as aggregate, just white instead of grey. Can you give out your source? I would like to add additional bubble alumina in miniature equipment. On 5/6/2020 at 8:48 AM, ThomasPowers said: I've built several gas forges using rivets, in fact used 16 penny nails trimmed to rivet length to hold on legs, burner mounts, carrying handle, etc. I think that is quite worthwhile; especially for beginners who need to keep costs down. Did you cold or hot form them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 We ordered it from High Temperature Tools & Refractory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Thanks; i'll order some from them, for summer fun out of the sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 "Kastolite 30 li" is a bubble refractory. If you want evacuated silica spheres check with a concrete supply, maybe a batch plant, it's commonly used in the aggregate gradation to make light weight concrete products. It might be more of a hassle finding one that will let you buy a small quantity, say 40lb. sack than it will be finding a concrete batch plant or supply that has the stuff. IDF&G are you talking about a refractory or just the bubbles? Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 The bubble Alumina we used is a castable refractory coating, with Alumina spheres rated at 3000°F. It was applied over a 1/2 in layer of Satanite over 2 in of Kaowool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Hmmm, that sounds better than Kastolite 30. Approx price per sack? I know I'm really slow responding, don't know how I missed it. Probably lost as usual. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 This is what we ordered, took a 5 pound bag to give 3/8 inch all around and a flat floor in the 20 pound propane forge. "Bubble Alumina Refractory Coating: Highly flux resistant! This material works really well for coating an Inswool lined forge for protection against flux when forge welding. This is one of the most flux resistant coatings we have found to date! - 3300 degree temperature rating - 2.5 # bag is enough to do the floor in a 12" vertical forge (3/8" recommended thickness) 84# per cubic foot (1728 cubic inches) 2.5 pound bag - $17.00 5 pound bag - $32.00 20 pound bag - $120.00" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 I'll have to ask Distribution International if they carry it. A company and product name would REALLY help, please. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 High Temperature Tools & Refractory is where we bought it, that was from their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Thanks, I'll check them out. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 The only castable refractories I see on the site are Mizzou and Kastolite 2600 and 30 li. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Look under the Refractory Coatings tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Ah, I misread the description as being a castable refractory and it's essentially a kiln wash type coating. I'll have to pick some up. Thanks. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 When we mixed it according to directions, it was the consistency of a castable, not thin like a wash and it hardened like concrete. Don't know if you remember this ( or maybe I never posted it) when I added the balance of the 5 lb sack to make a flat floor. It's about 3/4 inch thick in the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Right and I even read the description on the site. I don't know where my brain was. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panik Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 Hey folks, just wanted to update briefly here, as I don't want to leave the impression that I came, got advice and jumped ship. I am very grateful for the support and guidance I received while building my first forge. I am also very appreciative of Glenn's willingness to assist with supplies and going the extra effort in welcoming me and making me feel comfortable ordering from someone I didn't know, among other things. I am still reading, learning and making attempts. The forge is now complete and the reducer coupling Frosty recommended works very well as a replacement for the end cap that fell apart. Point being, with work getting back into the swing of things I have had very little time for myself. What little time I have been able to grab here and there has been devoted to building my own version of a Gough jig so that I can put my forge to use heat treating. (In fact with a capped pipe it provides pretty even heating for heat treating) I just don't want to give the impression I cut and ran after getting what I needed..... I'm still here reading and thinking so that I can develop questions to ask. Again, thank you for putting me on the path! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 What we DIDN'T run you off!? Isn't that the way it goes? You're sitting around nothing to do and as soon as you get something ready t go you stop having time to use it. Welcome to my world. It's the time or money thing with me, if I have time I don't have money but it I have the money I don't have the time. So it's working for you? Unless you post pictures we don't believe it you know. Glad to be of some help. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panik Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 On 6/12/2020 at 1:10 AM, Frosty said: What we DIDN'T run you off!? Not in the slightest... working with college kids has given me a tougher skin that I used to have. They're not near as brutal as grade school kids but still......dang! Yup, time vs money is an ongoing issue, although I have learned to at least try to re-frame things as "I don't want to spend the money right now" or "I don't want to use the time".....It at least gives me the illusion of having a choice in the matter Directly forging related pics will be forthcoming I promise. Unfortunately, I just don't have a lot evidence of using the forge. I'm horrible at remembering to take photos and the best I have at the moment is a pic of the oil burning off of my heat treat pipe. It was neat and a bit spooky the amount of time it took for the film on the pipe to burn out of the inside. It was a very good demonstration of a low oxygen environment. (Probably also a good reminder to de-grease things before I chuck them into the forge as well). I could also post up the file knife I tried to heat treat.... but all that would do is demonstrate my impatience and illustrate what happens when you don't treat steel nicely In very mildly forge related news, I have learned that for the time being, I am uninterested in using powered tools for stock removal knives. Aside from the obvious, and well discussed, issues of re-purposing a bench top sander, I just don't have enough experience to maintain an accurate and repeatable grind yet. I'd like to get a better understanding of how things work before moving on to powered tools. On the plus, a Gough Knife Jig is pretty easy to build with simple tools. I added a mild steel face/work surface to improve durability and reduce flexing. The one thing I dislike about the jig is that it uses a series of stop bolts across the bottom of the jig to hold the knife blank in alignment to the file. From previous experience, I know I'm not going to be able free-hand drill the holes necessary with the accuracy I would like. Instead of using stop bolts, I am going to attempt employ clamped metal strips as a backstop for the knife blank and use a bubble level to make ensure it is level. This should prevent the attitude of the knife from changing in relationship to the file when I go to do the other side. Pics of the doggo cause I'm seriously lacking direct forge related photographic evidence.... Besides he's the best furry friend I could have ever hoped for.... very much a once in a lifetime companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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