SamJ1425 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I have been lurking here for a little while absorbing and reading everything I can before trying to ask some questions but i am getting to the point where i have most of what i need but i have a few questions I havent found answers to. First one is do I need to give 24 hours for the rigidizer to evaporate I heard that I needed to but then I keep seeing people mention just heat treating it with a propane torch so in that scenario it seems like they are applying it and torching it and then the next layer of ceramic wool without waiting for it to evaporate. Second is how far in do you put your burners into the forge I think I already have the angle right. Ill post some pictures of what i have currently Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey98118 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 You can heat the ceramic wool to dry from sopping wet to bone dry with a torch, and then go right on heating it up to incandescence to set the rigidizer; all in one go. About one-inch shy of even of the inner surface. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Any feedback on the forge would be great based on everything I have read I'm going to be using ceramic wool, coloidal silica rigidizer on the inside of the shell and the kastolite for the flame face and a high alumina kiln shelf for the floor ill put on a coating of itc 100 later but its going to take a little while to ship to me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Irondragon ForgeClay Works Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I found that our forge using a GACO-750 burner, (similar to yours) runs better with some secondary air. Here is a link to our build. Sad that tinypic lost all the early pictures. 20 pound propane tank forge in progress - Gas Forges - I Forge Iron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Ok thanks Mikey, i realized i had another question i have 1/2 in thick ceramic wool, i bought it before i found the forums is it goijng to provid any problems to use it instead of 1 inch thick wool or is it fine to just do 4 layers for 2 inches Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 I really like your forge design irondragon but I'm not seeing where the secondary air you mentioned is where did you introduce the secondary air? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Irondragon ForgeClay Works Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The secondary air is pulled in around the burner body, there is about a 1/4 inch gap between the body & burner port. When I plug the gap with kaowool the forge does not get as hot as it should. You can see the gap in this picture. It's really aggravating that tinypic deleted all of the early pictures we took while building it. I found one of the early pictures showing the burner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Ok I see what you mean, do you think I should modify my burner setup now or after I have the forge going to see how its working when it gets running? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Irondragon ForgeClay Works Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 With a larger forge and two burners, I would probably go with what you have now. It would be easy enough to modify it with different burner ports if needed. The pipe that we used is a piece of exhaust pipe we picked up at the local muffler shop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Also I'm planning on making a cut out on the doors with a little plate steel rest for bricks to rest on so I can block it off with them, do you think that is trying to over engineer the doors for the forge? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey98118 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 23 hours ago, SamJ1425 said: but its going to take a little while to ship to me Why would it? Your can buy all that in Tacoma. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pnut Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 On 12/1/2019 at 9:13 PM, SamJ1425 said: ill put on a coating of itc 100 later If you haven't already ordered it, plistix is cheaper. Pnut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey98118 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 But..I see a burner rebuild in your immediate future. The intakes on your burner is only about 2:1 and 3:1 would be better. Worse still is their mixing tube length, which looks short. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 Pnut I have been looking for plistix but haven't found anywhere to buy it I saw the links for ordering it here but was hesitant to do so because I couldn't even find documentation for it or mention of it anywhere besides these forums and leading about something is one thing but I learn better by watching or doing and wanted to have more confidence of a known quantity before I handled and used it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 Mikey I had tested the burner setup outside of the forge and it seemed like it was working well I know it's going to act a little bit differently when shooting into an enclosed space and isolated in its own environment and atmosphere but it seemed like it would work, is there any characteristics that the flame should have in an open atmosphere that will be indicative of how it will act in the forges' enclosed atmosphere and if so what should I be looking for? also the intake tube and flare are all one price that treads onto the burner output so I could change that out if I need to also the intake cap threads off too, is the a calculation of tube length and width and intake ratio that I can somehow determine? Where can I get the itc 100 or plistix in Tacoma Mikey? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timgunn1962 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Can you buy jets for the burner separately? If it needs secondary air as it stands, with the choke fully open, to get the maximum temperature that you need, fitting a smaller gas jet will increase the primary air:fuel ratio and reduce or eliminate the secondary air requirement. I would find out what jets are available, if any, and how fast you can get them, before butchering the burner mountings. That way you can see what you get and decide whether to try different jets or cut-and-shut if it does not do what you want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pnut Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Plistix 900F is manufactured by PLIBRICO Company LLC. I found the MSDS at PLIBRICO.com/uploads/MSDS/sdsPlistix900F or by searching plistix900f. Pnut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey98118 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 12 hours ago, SamJ1425 said: Mikey I had tested the burner setup outside of the forge and it seemed like it was working well I know it's going to act a little bit differently when shooting into an enclosed space and isolated in its own environment and atmosphere but it seemed like it would work, is there any characteristics that the flame should have in an open atmosphere that will be indicative of how it will act in the forges' enclosed atmosphere and if so what should I be looking for? also the intake tube and flare are all one price that treads onto the burner output so I could change that out if I need to also the intake cap threads off too, is the a calculation of tube length and width and intake ratio that I can somehow determine? Where can I get the itc 100 or plistix in Tacoma Mikey? Last question first: Tacoma is a major port city, with lots of ship repair going on. You should be able to find plenty of boiler repair businesses to find ceramics from. Out in the forth end, just off of I-5 (just on to the reservation) there used to be a pottery and warm glaess supply business that even held glass blowing classes; I would bet they are still around. Plistix would be my first choice, but it isn't the only one. Take what you can get, or be prepaired to what for it from an online source, like here. About the burners: If, as you have concluded, they work well enough, than well enough It may come as a surprise, but I LIKE your burner construction methods, and would like for you to go into it in detail about it on the Burners 101 thread. You have a lot to contribute to others on this subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John in Oly, WA Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Look up Clay Art Center - Tacoma. They also have Kastolite 30 in 55 lb. bags. But, hey, you can never have too much of that stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey98118 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Hi, John. Yes, Clay Art Center is the place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John in Oly, WA Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 I knew that was the place you were referring to Mikey - just putting a name to it to make it easier for Sam to source. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey98118 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Do they still have warm glass classes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 I've been to clay art center that's where I got my kastolite 30, burners and rigidizer but they don't have itc 100 or plistix they hadn't heard of plistix and itc 100 they said they stopped carrying because the company had changed their pricing and shipping or something and it became to difficult to deal with for how much they would have to sell it for and logistics So I'm at the stage where I have done all the layers I need of ceramic fiber and now I need to do the kastolite I've been reading everything I can find on the process but I wanted to make sure I do it right as I under stand it I mix the kastolite and after applying it in 1/2across everything I have to keep it enclosed in a 100 humidity while it sets and cures for at least 24 hours(I was planning on doing this by banging and tying it off in a garbage bag for this weekend) and then you have to fire it 2 separate times for maximum hardness first time at a low temp fire and then a high temp fire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SamJ1425 Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 Also should I do kastolite for my forge doors or more ceramic fiber and kastolite instead Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey98118 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 That is one of those personal preference decision; there is no cut and dried answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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