Drakavius Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Hey all Here's the deal. I've decided on making a forge out of a 20lb propane tank. It'll be lined with 2 inches of ceramic wool with rigidizer and then a coating of some refractory. I have everything sorted out except two things as I don't have the means to weld. I wanted to create some type of burner seat and also have the back of the tank function as a hinged door. The only method I can think of to attach these things to the forge are having screws drilled from the inside out. The screws would be behind the insulation, but my concern is they'll overheat, malfunction and then parts of my forge would fall off. I'm especially worried this would be the case after running the forge for longer periods of time or for running it at welding temperatures. Am I mistaken? If not, what would be some other solutions to mounting the burner seats and hinge for the door? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Most folks I know weld the door hinges onto the forge body. That's the way it was done on mine. There is also riveting. The screws on my burner mount have oxidized solid over the last 20 years or so. I expect to have to grind them off and put in a new set this rebuild cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Welcome aboard, have you read this yet? READ THIS FIRST It will help you get the best out of the forum with hints like editing your profile to show your location. If you were close enough to visit my shop, I would gladly weld what you would want for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakavius Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Thomas, I hadn't thought of rivets. Also, is it reasonable to assume that anything behind the insulation will reach roughly the same temperature as the forge body? So if the body heats up to 1000f, the screws would be roughly the same temp? Irondragon, Thanks for the tip, just edited location now. We're not close unfortunately, but your offer is appreciated nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Metals are generally excellent conductors of heat so the inside surface of the forge shell should be close to the outside surface of the forge shell temp, any metal attached should also heat up. If the outside body of your forge heats to 1000 degF you have seriously done it wrong! The idea of using insulating refractory inside the forge is to cut down on heat transfer. I'm currently working on a gas forge where I'm not using any power tools except for a drill to build it. I cut the small He balloon tank with a hacksaw and I've riveted the handle, burner holder and legs on using 20 penny nails for rivets. Got tired of folks telling me they couldn't build a forge because they didn't have a welder. About 3000 years of building forges without welders and suddenly they are stopped dead by not having one! The JABOD and Improvised Anvil threads have done so much to teach folks that you don't need a ton of money to get forging. Frosty's T burner thread is leading the way for cheap propane forges too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakavius Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Okay, definitely noted! That was just a hypothetical that I hopefully don't reach. Fingers crossed I set up the insulation correctly. As for your rivets, could you post a picture of how you've done it? That would help a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Drill hole through both pieces. Put a (used) nail through the holes with the head inside the forge shell. Cut to length---need about 1.5 times the diameter of the nail shaft protruding. Place head of nail on horn of the anvil, cleat, heavy round, etc; peen rivet. It's a lot easier to peen the rivets on the outside than on the inside like on spangen helm! For the burner holder; I cut down a diameter of a section of black iron pipe a couple of inches then heated it and bent the cut sections out and made tabs of them to fit the outside of the forge shell. Drilled holes and riveted the tabs to the shell. I'll drill and tap for a set screw. Pictures when the project gets back up to the top of the list. The rebuild of my main gas forge takes priority right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakavius Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Good idea. I'll try something similar. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 The burner holder (port) can be made from automotive tailpipe. If you have a muffler shop near they always have short pieces in a bin that they sell cheap or in my case give to you. Just take the burner to fit it fairly loose in the pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakavius Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Alright, that sounds good. Now as far as the burner port area goes, does that area need to be air tight or just somewhat restrictive to excess airflow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Rotblatt Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: 20 penny nails for rivets LOL...Been there done that! I used to use roofing nails a lot for leather rivets. Although since you mentioned spangen helms, I see you are from a similar background. Only thing I can add to that is if you are riveting two thin sheets of sheet metal together, use a small washer that the rivet/nail will fit closely into on the side you peen. It's a surface to peen onto and the wider surface will hold the sheet metal together better. 8 hours ago, Drakavius said: The screws would be behind the insulation, but my concern is they'll overheat, malfunction and then parts of my forge would fall off. I'm especially worried this would be the case after running the forge for longer periods of time or for running it at welding temperatures. It'll work fine, or use rivets. As Thomas said, screws may oxidize solid over time...but so what? The forge body should not get over 3-400F - same as an oven and there are plenty of screws holding those together. There are a few places, like over the door that may get hotter. DanR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakavius Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 Ah, well I vastly underestimated the power of the insulation. Most of my concerns are alleviated given what you've added. Now onto to getting the rights parts and constructing it! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Gas Forge Refractories and Supplies We ship to your door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 With 2" of Kaowool and about 1/2" Kastolite +/- hard refractory you can touch the outside of my forge at welding temp, it's hotter than a fresh cup of coffee but not much. Sheet metal screws, nuts and bolts rivets, will all work just fine for you. If you want to be extra sure hit the forge side with a little Header/stove paint. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakavius Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 That's great then. Thanks for the reassurance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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