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Ribbon Burner Help Please - Can't Light


wtfnorm

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Hi All,

I'm very new here. I was searching for help with a ribbon burner problem and came across this forum. Signed up immediately!

I have constructed a forced air ribbon burner from youtube info. Particular the series by SmithinStu. My problem is I cannot seem to get it to ignite. I am just testing it right now outside of a forge. I assume it is a mixture issue, but cannot figure it out. It is a MIG tip style gas outlet. I am using a shop vac for air right now, just to test. I was hoping to see that it worked before moving on to the forge build. I have tried reconfiguring the piping, tried a new propane tank, I have metered down the air from full to almost zero, added a static air mixer, placed the fuel feed close to the burner and further away, added another 90deg. in between.....nothing seems to make a difference. I can light the propane at the MIG tip and can ignite the burner with no air (although the combustion seems to occur inside the burner...fun).

I thought it was the shop vac, but people see to use them. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Pix attached

RB1.jpg

RB2.jpg

RB3.jpg

RB4.jpg

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Welcome aboard Norm, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you'll discover how many members live within visiting distance. Heck, you might live close enough to me I could help you build one that works. Youtube is pretty worthless, even dangerously so unless you already know enough about the subject to sift the wheat from the chaff.

What kind of regulator do you have o the propane? Do you have a needle valve for fine adjustments? If the answer is yes then LOSE the mig contact tip. Anyone suggesting a mig tip jet in a gun burner doesn't understand what he's working with. Makes him a good example of a Youtuberous "expert".

Next lose the vacuum cleaner and find a much less powerful blower a WallyWorld mattress inflator is plenty and even a blow drier should be workable.

Most gun (blown) ribbon burners are operating at many times as much pressure as is appropriate. You see videos of really hot forges but they're blowing dragon's breath a couple few feet out the openings!:o That's propane YOU are paying for burning in the air you want to breath instead of IN THE FORGE where it can do work for you. Yes?

Did you use crayons as cores to make your outlets in the burner block? I do though I may try something else on my next ones. 

The jet. shorten the nipple you have extended in the supply pipe and cap it. drill a couple small holes in it o opposite sides, 1/8" is good. I'd just drill all the way through once. Install it on the other side of the elbow, the more times the fuel air mix has to burn corners the better it'll mix. You don't want the propane shooting in the air pipe in line with the flow you MUST have turbulence or propane just won't mix.  How much psi you supply will determine how much propane you introduce to the mix. Yes? This is why it's good to have a needle valve so you can do the fine adjustments. 

Be aware propane regulators and gauges aren't particularly accurate so do yourself a favor and disregard what other people say what psi their burners work under.

Make a temporary mount in the forge to test. Unless you're going to be using it out of it there is no good reason to tune your burners outside the furnace you're going to use it in. Just make something to clamp it to and close the edges up with kaowool or similar. You want to be able to take it out so it's easy to modify, save more permanent mounts till later. Make sense?

Anyway, with the blower as low as you can get it to turn toss a piece of burning paper in the forge and open the propane valve till you get something going. If it's burning inside the plenum you have combustion air leaking in somewhere and that's a BIG issue. Once you have yellow flames turn on the blower or open the valve so it gets some air.

Slowly increase the air till you get a good bed of flames at the burner block. You want little ones to start with, think Bic lighter or smaller. Once you have a good flame you can turn it up by increasing the propane flow, either at the needle valve or regulator and increase the air supply till the flame is pretty good. Now fine tune the flame with the needle valve till it's right.

Being a gun (blown) burner you'll need to adjust both air and fuel to turn the heat up or down. This is just the nature of the beast, it MUST balance or you'll have a flame that doesn't work properly. Think of it like leveling a teeter totter,you have to get the weight right on each side. Make sense?

Frosty The Lucky.

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Welcome to IFI. 

What are you using for air control?  I tried to use a shutter on the intake of the blower but couldn't throttle the ait down enough. I use a gate valve to throttle the airand needle valve to throttle gas. Guage can help to repeat the settings once you learn what your froge likes. Dont fret, the people here are very helpful. 

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Thanks Frosty,,,,all good points. I will try your suggestions.

In answer to some of your questions;

No needle valve, my supplier didn't have one so just the ball valve. I will get one.

The regulator is just a BBQ style... i will get a proper one.

I used straws for the burner holes. Worked very well except for 2 that were stubborn, likely missed them when spraying the release. 

Thank you again for the help. and yes...it makes sense. will update soon. Glad I found the forum.

Norm

Thanks...Mr. Moose...didn't really have a way to control the air, did it manually by blocking off the pipe, trial and error style. Mostly error I guess, thanks for the encouragement!

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8 hours ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Another thing is only change one thing at a time and take notes.

Oh GOOD GRIEF I'm the one always saying that and I gave him a list of things to change! Somebody should hit me with a rubber chicken or something!

The best place I've found for finding and buying propane: fittings, hose, regs valves, . . . stuff is the propane supplier's brick and mortar store front. Not only do they have virtually everything on the shelf the prices are usually better than most. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I already have one, I think it came from a costume / party store. I got it years ago as part of my Halloween, pirate costume. Lots of young children at the church Halloween party so I was a colorful funny pirate. The patter went like this. I used to be a most fearsome pirate but the first time I got into a sword fight I discovered my parrot was actually chicken. It's flapping and squawking in my ear distracted me and it got stabbed. I didn't have the heart to eat him/er though so I pickled him.

Please feel free to use mine.

Frosty The Lucky.

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On 9/1/2019 at 2:01 PM, Chris The Curious said:

That's one weird horse, if you ask me.

Never owned horses? They like toys, balls are favorites though I've never seen one that liked squeaking a chicken. I'd be very hesitant about teaching a horse to slap me with a rubber chicken. They're not so good at judging the difference between hard and soft and I'd rather not get worked over with a bucket or tree limb.

Sideways, how so Norm, wasn't he flapping his squeaky chicken up and down? 

This is just how we roll, know any good ones?

Frosty The Lucky. 

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Nope Frosty, no horses in my pastures...............only Llamas.  Had 23 at my place back in 2003-2008..................but down to my last two at present.  Got into Llamas in 1986, but didn't really start building the herd until 2001.

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You should give em a try, horses are a lot more fun than any old camelid. Some are real jokers, most are really gentle with children though not all. Some are just plain RANK mean but most are pleasant friendly critters if you treat them well.

I really miss the horses but not the work.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Yup, I know what you mean about the "work" part with horses.  I dated a country "horse" girl back in the late 80's who had a dozen horses on her place.  She and her folks shared the work normally, but a couple of times when the folks went on a trip, they left my girlfriend at home to tend the chores alone.  I stayed with her to help.  My take on horses..........they are a pain in the.............well, you know what I think, and Glenn wouldn't want me to say it! :D  I'll take my Llamas any day of the week.  Easy to care for, nicely disposition-ed and they smell like Fritos!  :lol:  Funniest part of the story is the girl's folks ended up getting rid of the horses and getting Llamas as a result of their exposure through me.  :D

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  • 5 weeks later...

Just an update on this thread....I finally got the burner to light. Tried several fixes one at a time. Replaced the shop vac with a hair dryer, it's still a bit too much, bit will put a better blower set up with forge build. 

The real fix was the regulator...30 psi with gauge did the trick. We are literally cooking with gas. Forge build to follow. 

Thank you all for your help.

20191004_162408.jpg

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