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Found 22 results

  1. This is my gas forge. When i started sevenish years ago, this forum taught me anything i needed to know. Thanks a bunch everyone. I have now finished my newest forge. Hopefully it lasts. Roughly 1 1/2" thick cast with 1" wool wrap for added measure. Measures 10" wide on the floor by 8 " tall by 14" deep. I made the ribbon burner as many others have. With my 27 hole (i beleive) at 5/16", it has a 2" opening in which the air and fuel are stuffed. The gas orifice is 1/16". I have yet to fully bring it up to temp.
  2. I started a few weeks ago building my first forge. I’m wanting to start bladesmithing/tool making. I've built a box forge out of 3/16 plate steel. The internal diameter is 5” x 7” x 12”. Insulated with 2” of rigidized kawool and then 3/4” of Kasto-Lite 30. I am going to cover it with ITC-100 Kiln wash. I had already bought this before learning Plistex would’ve been better. I chose to build a 8” ribbon burner. I used the Wayne Coe instructions for the burner with a few changes. I used his spacing but used drinking straws instead of crayons. And made the pipe entrance from the side instead of rear to save space. I also elected to put the burner on the side and at the top of the forge wall. I had a hard time finding how to pipe it so after lots of looking I finally figured it out. I chose to run 2” pipe down to the blower. The blower is a 2” blower from blacksmith depot. I added a gate valve for air control. The gas entrance is 1/4” piping that I am going to drill and tap into the 2” pipe above the gate valve. The gas pipe will be as follows. 1/4” MPT/FPT 90–>1/4”x3” NPT nipple—>1/4”NPT tee with a 0-30 PSI gauge—>1/4”X2” NPT nipple—>1/4”FPT to FPT needle valve—>1/4” MPT to FPT ball valve—>1/4”x3” Nipple—>1/4” Union—>1/4” MPT to 3/8 Flare Fitting. All the pipe was galvanized so I soaked it in vinegar to remove galvanization prior to welding or heating. I will run from the gas connection to the tank with a 12’ braided 0-30 psi regulator with the gauge. I opted to have the additional gauge on the regulator and after the needle valve to be able to measure and duplicate the tuning as easily as possible. I still need add surround to hold burner and finish the stand. I hope to have it burning be next weekend. If anyone knows where to find the best info on tuning and the proper colors for temps that would be greatly appreciated. I’ve been reading just hasn’t find it yet.
  3. Hi , let me start saying my english may not be good enough , so let me know if something is not clear . I been forging with my charcoal forge for half a year now , but wanted les time consuming , so i'm starting my first gas forge build. Resources are not really available in Argentina , so I been doing some research and trying to pull out some design that may work with what I have. First gas . Propane is too expensive here so , it has to be methane. People here use bottled methane for their gas forges , and works pretty well but a 10kg bottle is a bit out of my budget so i'm gonna give a shot at a natural gas forge. From my research a gathered 2 thing about Natural Gas , is not that hot , and doesn't have much pressure, so insulation and burner performance are key ( as in every other forge , i know). For this reason I've chosen a Forced air Ribbon burner. Now , insulation , I know you probably are not gonna like this . For my insulation Im using K-26 insulating brick and that's it . Being my first build I didn't want to spend much so I bought 8 k-26 bricks( the factory gifted me 3 extra so I have 11 ) , and 10kg of 60% alumina castable refractory to coat the inside . The build . my idea is making a box forge with 6 bricks (2 for the sealing 2 for the floor , 1 for each wall ) and cast a 1/2 inch in the interior. The box made with the bricks ( without the refractory ) would have a volume of 161 cubic inches. For the burner my first idea was to cast it in refractory but then I had the problem as to where attach it to the forge , and the fear that it will lose to much heat because it will have no insulation behind it , so my new idea is to carve one of the wall brick , drill it and insert the plenum there , and then seal it with refractory (I thought high temp silicon my work to ) and make some kind of support so it doesn't puts to much stress in the brick an the refractory . the forge is rather small so I was thinking of a plenum of 2x2 inches with a 3/4 mixing tube . I am under the impression that more flare holes will make shorter flares , so i was thinking of making as much as I can , without surpassing the 13:1 ratio for the burner block , and without surpassing the area of the mixing tube , to not lose pressure. So let me know what do you think
  4. Hey community, I often read in here that the size of the gas orfice should be 1 mm in diameter or even bigger in blown burners. Doesnt this contradicts with the whole "blown burners are more efficient" theme? Furthermore its often adviced to use larger gas orfices when experiencing burner problems like not getting up to temperature. I run my blown ribbon burner with a 0,6 mm mig tip on about 0,2 bar (propane) for general forging. I encountered backfire problems due to overheating of the burner block (hope to solve this soon and coat it with itc100 as adviced here) but besides that it runs perfectly smooth. So where does that "bigger is better" attitude come from? Dont get this as an offend. Iam just curious. Tim
  5. Hi Guys and Gals Now that most of the swelling has gone down and my cast is off I figured I would post a forge build that I did a couple months back. After trying to forge weld Damascus billets in a big ribbon burner forge I decided It would save me tons of money on propane if I built one that was 1/4 of its size. I wanted something kinda unique , something different than anything else i have seen so i started digging through all of my scrapyard junk putting random pieces of car parts together. I had a couple old party balloon helium tanks laying around that would be about right after putting some extra Kawool inside to close up my overall ID. The afternoon that I cut my tank and got it all prepped up my wife ask me if I would grab the Prettiest pup from our recent border collie litter and a few rustic props for a 4H photo contest that my Oldest daughter had entered . I was instructed to get some loose hay , wagon wheel, saddle , old boots, and the milk can off of the front porch..... MILK CAN !!!!! I knew right then that milk can was fixing to be my new forge lol But I never said a word because I knew xxxx would be frozen over before my wife gave me her early 1900's milk can with no dents and a lid that fits perfect. So I did what any rough tough head of the household would do..... I waited until about 2 in the morning and tiptoed outside and like a ninja I snatched up MY milk can and ran down to my shop. I covered it up in the corner for a couple days to see if she would notice it missing. I finally got up the nerve to cut in to it and weld in a plate to create a new back wall to cut down on size. with it being galvanize coated I knew it was better to weld it at the entrance of the shop with the door open for ventilation. Holding my breath , Hood down , bent over trying to get two arms and my gun down in this tiny space i'm rehearsing in my head how the conversation will go in a week or two when she finally discovers what I had done ..... About that time I hear WHAT IN THE XXXX ARE YOU DOING WITH MY MILK CAN???? If it wasn't for my hood i think I would have dove all the way in the can. I thought, I can still pull this off.... I said honey i'm making something special for you. Of coarse she seen right through that BS , I will spare you the rest of the conversation but leave you with this ... If I don't screw up anymore this week I can come back in house starting Monday. Here is a few pictures of the build.
  6. Hey guys, I've finally built my new forge and had it drying for a couple weeks before I first tried it out and had it slowly coming up to temperature. But after 20 Minutes it still wasn't nearly hot enough and it didn't seem to go any higher maybe the forge is just too big for the burner? The burner is made from 1 1/2" pipes, gas nozzle is 1mm and the burner block has 23 eight millimeter holes. The Forge is insulated with 3 layers of koa wool and 20mm castable refractory. The blower has 600m3/h and is speed controlled, when I turn it a bit higher than on the picture it blows itself out. Thanks in advance to anyone!
  7. Hello everyone! I just started building my first forced air ribbon burner forge that will be ran on residential natural gas. My question is what is the best way to set up the gas orifice? I've looked around on here for an answer but can't find it yet. I'm running 2" pipe so I know the orifice has to be 18" from the burner but would it be ok for the orifice to be 26 inches away and what is the minimum size for a gas supply line I can run? Thank you!
  8. Hi guys, I built myself a ribbon burner forge and although it ran quite well in the beginning, the burner was too big for my forge and ate through the propan bottles like crazy. To solve this problem, I started to close some holes of the burner, but it turned out that the burner stopped working properly. The flame ignites very late, almost on the ground of the forge and it seens that the airspeed is too high, but the blower is almost completely closed. I don't know what that the problem could be. Maybe the gas is not poperly mixed anymore due to low air speed in the pipe. I also realized that on the open side of the forge, the flame is better than on the closed side. I uploaded a short video, where you can see the flame of the burner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyBVnBEXuuU If you guys have any thoughts, i would be glad to hear them Tobias
  9. Hi All, I'm very new here. I was searching for help with a ribbon burner problem and came across this forum. Signed up immediately! I have constructed a forced air ribbon burner from youtube info. Particular the series by SmithinStu. My problem is I cannot seem to get it to ignite. I am just testing it right now outside of a forge. I assume it is a mixture issue, but cannot figure it out. It is a MIG tip style gas outlet. I am using a shop vac for air right now, just to test. I was hoping to see that it worked before moving on to the forge build. I have tried reconfiguring the piping, tried a new propane tank, I have metered down the air from full to almost zero, added a static air mixer, placed the fuel feed close to the burner and further away, added another 90deg. in between.....nothing seems to make a difference. I can light the propane at the MIG tip and can ignite the burner with no air (although the combustion seems to occur inside the burner...fun). I thought it was the shop vac, but people see to use them. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Pix attached
  10. Currently working on my new ribbon burner forge build. I put an initial layer of around 1/2 of Kastolite 30 on top of my kawool, after I let it dry to gently rubbed off the crumbly sections to see what was solid. I chose to add another layer since it seemed thin on the forge floor. Should I add another layer on the roof? It seems solid currently, and there's just a few small patches I have to fill in. I've heard that I could potentially cause issues with having two layers of Kastolite? Thanks!
  11. So, just to bring a question to the beginning of a thread that I've had to dig deep into several threads to find any info on (and I'm still not satisfied I've gotten all the info I need for my build), let me ask a question or two. Which castable refractory would our senior members recommend for the ribbon burner, the forge body, and the forge floor, if one decides to cast it rather than brick or kiln shelf it. And why? If a particular brand is not recommended, what properties should one look for in the material one chooses for each of these components? The internet has such a confusing glut of conflicting information (and even here, threads wander), I'd just like to get some opinions from experienced guys. I apologize to those who have addressed these questions before, but I think future questers (Not to mention myself, now) will appreciate having these particular questions addressed early in a thread. Let me also say that the reason I am asking these questions here is that, as my personal curiosity has moved into this area, Iforgeiron forums is where I have found the most down-to-earth, basic "guys who are just interested in this stuff and VERY willing to share with other guys" people. I appreciate that. Your expertise and our locations do not lend themselves to an apprenticeship type learning relationship, so there is nothing we newbies can give back to the "Masters", though we would if we could. If you would all just indulge us, especially after all that flattery, please just let us learn this particular bit of info for our early builds so our learning curves can benefit from the "learn from each other" method rather than the "Do it all yourself" method. If you're not willing to pet puppies, why bother being here? We thank you when you are willing to share your work and knowledge here. It makes you good folk
  12. So many rigidizing is some strictly rigidized some help glue the ceramic blanket to the outside walls some reflect the heat back already have some plistex for a reflective thermal product because I’m too cheap for ITC but would rather rigidizevfirst and then apply a thermal reflective product as well as looking into some kind of sodium silicate for a way to glue the two -3 inches of ceramic blanket to the walls of them ribbon forge I’m about to be buildingOr should I just get some Mizzou cast a light and call it a day
  13. Almost finished with my first propane forge. The shell is 11 gauge sheet metal I bent around a 12” diameter pipe to form the vault on top. The bottom is flat. I bought a Pine Ridge LP 290 burner which is fed by a 2” black pipe. I thought about making my own ribbon burner but liked their burners and decided to put my time into other parts of the build. I used 3” of rigidized 8lb Durablanket on top and bottom because the burner protrudes 3” inside the shell. I only used 2” on the sides to maintain the inside width I wanted. I added a ½” Kastolite liner and a nitride bonded silicon carbide kiln shelf floor. I cut the insulation carefully so that the burner fit snuggly. The Kastolite slightly overlaps the edge of the recessed burner so I shouldn’t have any leakage around the burner to the outside. I painted the inside with some Matrikote I bought from Wayne Coe. Inside dimensions are 19” deep, 8 ½” tall and wide. The doors are insulating firebrick. I made a brick from Kastolite but it was heavy for my use so I decided to stick with the light weight insulating bricks for now. The upper bricks in front are held in place by compression with a bracket on each side. The lower bricks slide open/closed using a pair of 24v linear actuators I found on Craigslist by accident. An example of finding something I didn’t know I was looking for but knew what to do with when I saw them. I bought a 24v power supply and a double throw center off momentary rocker switch from Amazon. The back is closed off with fire brick but can be opened for pass thru as needed. All metal is well outside the flame zone so I don’t think I’ll have any problems with warpage. Not sure if I’ll like the actuator controlled doors but it will be fun to see how they work and if they survive the heat. I’ll leave the front bricks apart a bit for the exhaust and can open to a max of 6” with the actuators. I can easily work at the back end if I need more than a 6” opening. I have a 100lb propane tank with a Harris 25GX regulator. From there, I run a ¼” braided stainless hose to a ball valve, then a Red Hat normally closed solenoid valve controlled by a Cleveland Controls pressure switch and then to a needle valve. You can hear the solenoid valve click open in the video once I turn on the blower. The propane enters the airstream thru a mixer made from a 2” T and some 1/8” tubing. Air from a Centaur PB50 blower is controlled by a 2” gate valve. The needle and gate valves are near the front of the forge so I can see the flames as I make adjustments. I removed the variable speed control from the Centaur’s motor because it seemed redundant with a gate valve and slowing some motors can overheat them. I have multiple uses for the blower and can use all the air it puts out. I wired in a 25’ 14 gauge extension cord. All 120 volt wiring is protected by FMC. The 24 volt wiring is not encased but is held out away from the forge body by zip tying them to the 2” black pipe which should never get very hot. I made adjustable tool rests and castable refractory porches for the front and back. I made a 10” wide air curtain using some thin sheet metal and a 1 ¼” T. The T allows me to clean out anything that falls in. The air curtain uses the burner blower’s excess capacity. I don’t have a valve on the pipe going to the air curtain and don’t think I’ll need one since the pipe reduces to 1 ¼” but I can add it later. The pvc pipe to the air curtain has a barb with attached clear tubing that goes to the pressure switch. I also drilled a hole in the metal pipe to direct a small amount of air to help keep the 24v power supply cool. A dust shield helps keep the power supply clean. The forge stand is yellow only because most of the scrap I bought at the local salvage yard was already painted, in good shape and I didn’t want to spend the time to grind it all off. I just cleaned up my welds and touched up the paint. I kinda like the yellow now. The propane hose is held up out of the way with an adjustable support. The stand has casters at one end and adjustable legs on the other. The adjustable legs allow me to make the forge stable and level on most surfaces and prevent the forge from rolling off on its own.
  14. . Author's Note: This thread talks about activities and techniques that are DANGEROUS. You use this information at your own risk. I suggest you read the entire thread before embarking on the build. It should be noted that is not a project for a beginner. Look into brick pile forges and building venturi burners to get some experience before tackling something like this. In my previous thread "Ribbon Burner Build" I created a square ribbon burner and learned a lot of things about what makes these things work. One thing that I neglected to include in my calculations was Bernouli's Principle; which states that a gas exiting a small tube into a large tube results in a larger pressure in the bigger tube but slower velocity. When we consider a ribbon burner, this means that the plenum doesn't need to be pressurized by back pressure building in the burner but rather its a natural result of the principle. What it also explains is the performance of the final burner. The numerous 5/16" holes on the exit of the burner are essentially one exit pipe since all will be backed by the same plenum pressure. So applying the principle we see that our 14 holes 5/16" wide comprise an exit pipe about a third of the input pipe. Applying Bernouli's principle it is clear that this means that the exit from the plenum will be three times the velocity (and a third of the pressure) of the gas inflow. Thus the reason that the burner has such a high velocity and hard time staying lit. Furthermore, since each jet is a flat casted tube, the burner lacks the dynamics of the traditional burner's flare to slow down the gas and balance flame front velocity. Another lesson learned is the cumbersome nature of a square burner. With the square burner, the forge dimensions must be accurate on all four sides to accommodate the burner. This leaves us with precious little tolerance for fitting. A perfectly round burner would work better. Additionally the structure of burner requires that there is little contact surface between the castable and the burner itself, only a small ridge and ¾" of metal around the edge. This will weaken the burner's ability to handle thermal shock. Also with the way it is cast, the square burner is prone to error in the depth and efficiency it is set in the castable; if a builder makes a small adjustment or the castable doesn't flow and resettle over the burner properly, it won't work properly and could break. A potential castable failure is another problem of that design. With the manner in which it is cast, a catastrophic castable failure would result in a complete failure of the plenum enclosure and thus a very bad result. as propane is dumped in at high pressure. The forge could suddenly burst in propane resulting in bad consequences. So clearly we need to work on a superior design. Thus is the Three Inch Round Pressurized Plenum Multi-Jet Burner (Ribbon Burner) Born. I started on my cad system planning the Burner. I planned to use a 3" inside diameter pipe (3.5" outside) as the size. The burner would be fed by a 1" feed tube and would be built to learn all the past lessons. The burner will have 9 jets that are ⅜" in diameter with ½" flares for each jet. The reason for the calculation of size results from the calculation of feed pipe input to burner jet output pipe size. So I wanted to make sure the jets comprised at least the same area in sum as the feed pipe. The calculation is fairly simply derived from the formula for the area of a circle. Area = πr2. So we want to know how many pipes of diameter x will take to equal a feed pipe of diameter y so: π(y/2)2 / π(x/2)2 ==> (y/2)2 / (x/2)2 ==> (y2/4) / (x2/4) ==> (y2/4) * (4/x2) ==> y2 / x2. From the complex we derive a simple equation courtesy of a little algebra. Putting the numbers in for a 1" feed pipe and a ⅜" output pipe, we get 12 / (⅜)2 ==> 1 / (9/64) ==> 1 * 64/9 ==> 7.111111 jets. So we would need 8 jets to accomplish a jet total diameter equivalent to the feed pipe. Wow. Is Everyone's brain hurting now? Stuffing all of this into my CAD system you have the following Burner. You may note that I included not 8 but 9 jets. The reason is that I wanted to make sure I really had enough output flow to slow it down. In retrospect I might have gone with 8 or even 7. Although the burner works good with 9, as you see later it seems to lack a little velocity. This is a pretty spiffy model but how do we construct it in real life? Well those that use CAD systems know that the easiest way to do a model like this is to whip up a cross section, create a single object from it and then extrude that cross section for the 3d model. I did exactly that and here are the cross sections for the Baffle, Flare and metering plate respectively. The fuel/air mixture enters through the feed pipe in the back then passes through the baffle which is designed to cause turbulence in the stream and make sure the mix is as complete as possible. The fuel/air is then forced through the metering tubes and is forced out into the flare. The flare jets are half inch in diameter, which is the outside diameter of each metering tube. The casted flare will now grip the metering plate, and the edge of the plenum as well as the wall of each of the metering tubes. The metal metering tubes also are a safety mechanism. If the flare were to crack catastrophically and drop into the forge, the metering tubes would still be working as jets and give you time to shut down the burner safely rather than a whole mess of pressurized propane bursting into the forge. To build this burner I selected 3" inside diameter ¼" wall mild steel pipe with ¼" x 4" wide plate to use for the baffle, metering and back plates. The metering tubes are ⅜" inside diameter by 1/16" wall tubing equaling ½" outside diameter. The very heavy materials will let us repeatedly recast the flare as needed. We can even hit a damaged flare with a hammer to break it off due to the plenum's strength. Now its time to build it. We start by cutting 4" of the pipe to serve as the plenum and 12" of the ¼" x 4" flat stock. For the baffle and metering plates we trace the inside of the pipe on the flat stock with the welding pencil. For the back plate we trace the outside of the pipe. Now we take a center punch and clearly mark the drawn circles with push marks. Later when working with the plates, we will be putting the metal under a lot of heat and the pencil or chalk lines could rub off. The punch marks will endure despite OA torch work or anything short of grinding them off. Also note that if you don't have a welding pencil, a permanent marker will do the trick. I have marked over my welding pencil lines in the images with the marker to demonstrate. Use a thin marker or your lines will be erratic. Now the task is to find the middle of the circle and then draw the 45º angle lines which will help us align the punch marks for drilling the holes. At this time I was estimating the best I could for how to do the center so it was slightly off. A day after I had drilled everything I found a geometric and easy way way to find the exact center of any circle. I will talk about that method later so don't start marking yet. My marks were reasonably accurate though I can see them a tiny bit off. I chose the best marked plate to punch for the metering tubes. I measured in along each line from the outside circle one half an inch and punched a mark. For the metering plate, I punched a mark in the middle as well. Now its time to drill the holes for the metering tubes and baffle. You might notice that i haven't cut apart the plates yet. You shouldn't either. The long plate makes it easy to clamp to the drill press securely. Clamping the individual circles would be very difficult. Drill first, then cut. When it comes to drilling I have put a piece of scrap plywood under the plate and adjusted the drill press to stop halfway through the plywood. That way I can make sure I get all the way through the metal as well as not hit my drill press table. I am using Dewalt Titanium drill bits because, frankly, they are awesome. You could theoretically do this with a hand drill but your accuracy will suffer badly. If you don't have a drill press, borrow one. Now its time to cut the hole for the feed pipe in the back plate. A bimetal saw will do this as long as you have a good lead drill bit to guide the hole saw. This will generate a TON of noise and vibration and so I recommend you put on as many clamps as you can and put them on tight. Unfortunately my hole saw rig was damaged and I couldn't use a lead bit. As a result the hole saw wandered off center and skipped a bit. The result would still be acceptable as the burner doesn't have to be centered. However, I am something of a perfectionist for this and I will correct it later. Now we can separate the plates first with a chop saw and then with an OA torch we rough cut out the outer circle of each plate. After that we use an angle grinder and clamp each plate in a vise and then grind down to the dots we punched for the circle (all welder's pencil and ink marks will be long gone). We just keep grinding down and turning the plates in the vise until they are right. To make sure they fit, test fit them in the pipe and grind down as needed. Don't forget to grind a slot for the seam inside the pipe. Then grind the plates clean and shiny for better welding. Now we can install the metering tubes. Cut off a 1 inch piece of tubing for each metering tube and then use a round file to clean off any metal burrs and grind a small bevel in one end of each of the tubes. Then take a hammer and set the beveled end in the metering plate and tap them down with the hammer but don't crush them. If they won't go, file out the hole a bit to make it work. It should be tight and take a hammer to set them but they should go in. Tap each tube down til it hits the metal underneath. All tubes should be flush with the back of the plate. Now using a MIG welder carefully weld around the outside of the metering tubes on the back of the plate. Try not to fill in the tubes too much or you will be filing for a while. Make good welds. Although they don't absolutely need to be gas tight, if you can weld them that way, all the better. Once welded, use a grinder to smooth off the back of the metering plate flat. The picture shows this in progress. Next take a round file and file out the inside of each tube to round again to get rid of any weld material. Now the metering plate is done. You can see the basic "Gatling Gun" structure and the lights from behind show the metering tubes are smooth inside and not obstructed. Now we put the plenum on a flat piece of metal that is at least as wide as the plenum and drop in the metering plate facing down and make sure it is sitting flat. Then we gently tack weld the metering plate in place. Now flip over the plenum and inspect it. The metering tubes should all be in flat with all tubes flush with the edge of the plenum. If it all is good then weld around the side of the plate to permanently mount it in the plenum. Take care to make good welds as gas tight would be beneficial. Try not to obstruct a tube with weld material or you will have to file that out with the round file. Its hard to brush off welds down in the pipe to make it look good but the principles of the weld are important, not its appearance. Now we are back to the problem of the back plate. Recall earlier I had a problem cutting the feed tube hole. I decided to redo it and this time i used my new method to find the center of a circle. It seems that geometrically any chord of a circle can be used to help find its center. A line passing through the halfway point of any chord and perpendicular to the chord must pass through the circle. So once you have pushed the circle, take a ruler and draw a chord exactly two inches long. Mark the 1" center of that chord. Then using a right angle draw a line passing clear through the circle. I used a cheap $5 adjustable metal protractor from Home Depot. Repeat this process and where the two perpendicular lines intersect is the exact center of the circle. Neat huh? I punch a mark at the center and drill a half inch hole (largest drill bit I have) in the middle. Then I draw out a one inch circle centered on the drilled hole. If you have a locking compass this should be easier to do before you drill out the center. Finally I punch the center circle with a center punch and then use the OA torch to cut it out. I file it as smooth as I can get it and then use the OA torch to cut the outside, and then grind it as before. in retrospect a Dremel might have made better work of the center but it doesn't have to be precise as turbulence is actually desired. I could have, of course, just bought another hole saw but now you have two ways to do it. Now its time to install the baffle plate. We measure down 1" into the plenum and mark it with a welding pencil. Then my helper (my son) holds the plate with some needle nose vise grips at the lines and flat so I can tack it in. We check the fit and then weld it in permanently. Next I weld the feed tube to the back plate. For the tube we used a 1" black pipe connector. Do not use a nipple or you will not have much material to weld to. Its better to use a straight connector for its greater metal mass. This weld MUST be gas tight and we will insure that later. Once this is done, we fit it on the plenum and then weld the back plate to the plenum. For this weld make sure you use high heat and probably two passes. Next I pass over the back plate and feed tube welds with an OA torch with a number 3 welding tip. The goal here is just to walk the weld puddle around the plenum and tube. If there are pinholes, they will be filled. If there are voids they will collapse and can be filled from welding rod in your hand. We dipped it in the water to cool it off after it was black again. The dead cricket in the water seems to help. Now I did something a bit boneheaded. Or rather ill timed. We decided to paint the plenum to resist rusting. Good idea to use an engine approved paint for 500º as the plenum shouldn't ever get that hot. So we crafted a box and painted it nicely. It looks great. Except we forgot later we will have to shove the thing in a forge and that will burn off our paint job. Oh well, live and learn. We will paint it again later when it is done. And now the plenum is done! Time to work on the flare. The flare will be cast out of Kastolyte 30 reinforced with stainless steel needles. In retrospect I might have used something a bit more dense but with the same rating. I don't know if a base of kastolyte with a Mizzou last inch would hold together. It might be worth a try. The problem is the kastolyte is an insulating refractory that is soft and the jets at the flare end might be prone to fracturing. Perhaps less jets and more space between jets would help. At any rate, to cast the flare we have to keep castable from getting inside the plenum and also cast ½" jets centered right over the metering tubes. We accomplished this by first trying to epoxy in ⅜" dowels into the plenum and then epoxying ½" dowels on top of the metering tubes. This is shown below but it didn't work well because it was nearly impossible to get the top dowels centered properly and remain perfectly vertical. Back to the drawing board. We took our half inch dowels and sanded them off and drilled out or pressed out the ⅜" dowels inserted in the metering tubes. If they go inside that is ok because they will burn out later. We then throw the plenum in the forge and burn it clean, burning epoxy as well as wood. This is NASTY so have a good ventilation fan! Oh yeah, the paint didn't hold up to the forge. We then decided to glue the ⅜" inserts to the dowel rods first and let them cure 24 hours first. In the meantime we experimented with making a tool out of the tubing used on metering tubes and a drill press. We also tried using sandpaper like a lathe since we only had to take off 1/16". These didn't work as well. I am sure there is a better way to do this to keep the tube perfectly straight but I haven't found one. At any rate our glued dowels worked. One thing we would have done is to sharpen the "up" points of the dowels so the castable would fall easier in between the dowels later. Make sure your dowels clear the top of the flare by at least 3.5". We glue them into the metering tubes with two part epoxy and let cure at least 24 hours. In retrospect would have also made a top plate out of thin wood with holes cut for the dowels for perfect alignment fit after the castable is poured. The pattern for the metering plate would have worked nicely with a larger outside diameter; for materials use the thin wood that you can get from the hardware store with a shiny side. To create the form for the outside of the flare we will use poster board and duct tape. We cut a 5" long slice out of poster board and roll it around the flare so the shiny side is inside. It should roll around several times. Get it nice and tight and tape the roll end. Now slide the new poster board tube up the plenum to make a depth of exactly 3 inches from the plenum pipe edge to the top of the poster board. Its possible you might be able to use a shorter cast but this looked good for insulation reasons. We duct tape the form in place on the plenum then later duct tape to reinforce the poster board all the way up the form. Now its time to mix the castable. We put on respirators (this stuff is bad for you to be breathing) and then my son opens the can we store Kastolyte 30 in and scoops it out into a drywall mud pan for mixing. We then get a couple of handfuls of stainless steel needles that will help reinforce the castable and put them in the dry castable. Now we add water VERY SLOWLY to the pan using a small plastic cup. You will be astonished at how a few drops can change the mix. Put a very small amount in, mix it up like crazy and then very slowly add a thimble full of water at a time. The final consistency should be like thick peanut butter. Now its time to pour. Scoop out the castable and put it right on top of the dowels. If I had sanded them into cones like pencils on top, this would have been easier. Fill the form until its full. Periodically you will have to pick up the burner and rap it solidly against the table repeatedly. This will force the castable mix to settle and fill all gaps. The vibration tamping is important. Without this you could end up with large voids. Just pick it up, keep it upright and rap it against the table several times and add more castable until it is full and even a bit overflowing. Once the form is full you can put on the top alignment form (not shown) tap down the form until its flush against the top of the poster board tube (some castable may squish out but that is ok). Then rap the whole thing against the table a few more times to settle the castable around any rods you have moved. Now you have to wait three days; if its cold where you live, bring it inside where temperature is constant. After three days you can peel off the duct tape and unroll the poster board off the flare. This will let the bottom parts of the flare cure faster. Leave the top plate of the form in place as removing it now could crack the cast. After another day drying its time to bake it. Put the whole thing in a forge you have currently operating or a brick pile quick forge. It doesn't have to be that efficient of a forge. Put the flare in the forge when the forge is cold. Light the forge and let the thing bake. The wood dowels, top plate and epoxy will burn out. This will be NASTY so have good powered ventilation. Now we let it cool in the forge a couple of minutes and use a shop vac in blower mode to blow out ash and charcoal. Keep an eye on where embers go and put them out quickly. A friend helps for this part. Make sure you have a fire extinguisher handy if needed. DO NOT VACCUM THE EMBERS INTO YOUR SHOP VAC. If you do, you are courting a bad fire later. Eventually you might have one or two holes plugged. Use a spare welding rod or metal or whatever to clean it out. At the end you should be able to see smooth bores for the flare and the top of the metering tubes. Now we let the burner cool and very carefully, very gently touch any extraneous ridges with an angle grinder. The grinder will eat through the castable like it is air so be very gentle and quick. There may be some stainless steel needles on top of the flare but they will burn away later so don't stress over them. Now it is time to build the supply pipe. We take a ⅛" brass pipe plug and chuck it in the drill with the dimple side up. Make sure to get the ones with the centered dimple. It will save you some time. We drill a small hole for the propane jet. As will all blown burners the exact size isn't that important. Then we screw that plug into a straight connector, that into a pipe nipple, pass the pipe nipple through a 1" to ½" black or galvanized reducer and through a ½" inch brass plug that has been drilled out to be almost exactly the outside diameter of the brass pipe nipple. We attach the other end of the nipple to a ¼" to ⅛" reducer and an elbow. This assembly we attach to the supply assembly. This consists of a propane hose to the regulator attached to a propane flashback suppressor, then a fuel to pipe thread converter than a ball valve and finally a ¼" brass nipple to the jet assembly. Use propane sealant on all brass connections and check for leaks with child's bubble solution while pressurized. Now we attach our blower (clamp it) to the a pipe to feed the air in. The feed plate is a 2" black iron pip nipple welded to a plate with a 2" hole in it. Then attach the blower feed to a bell reducer then to a gate valve using some pipe nipples and then to an elbow and then another long nipple. The propane feed assembly is attached to the top of a T fitting, the pipe from the blower enters on the leg of the T and the nipple leading to the plenum is on the other leg. This setup allows you to adjust the position of the jet, though I haven't really noticed a difference so I will probably go down to a shorter brass pipe nipple in the jet assembly. Any space around the pipe nipple will leak fuel /air unless you seal it off with duct tape or something else. I am working on a better config that isn't so leaky. Now we attach another elbow and then another nipple and then finally the plenum with its cast flare. We are now ready to test. We start a plumber's torch, set propane to 5 psi, turn on the blower and open the ball valve with the plumber's torch in front of the flare and WHOOSH, it lights. My son is waiting with his hand on the bottle valve, ready to cut the propane if anything bad happens. The flare really roars, all 9 jets are firing. We end up feeling like we aren't getting enough air velocity but even as imperfect as it is, its awesome in its functionality. It totally blows the normal blown burners to heck. I might try plugging one or two jets and seeing what the result is in velocity. The video is sort of on it's side so I hope you will pardon the roughness. I should have filmed it in landscape. Oops. Next we go to test it in a brick pile forge. We rig up a support arm, use hose clamps to attach the feed tube to the arm, mount the blower and move our brick pile to center up the burner. This is not the optimal forge for this burner but it will make a nice test. We close up the forge and shove pieces of insulating block to accommodate the roundness of the burner in the square forge. The burner is a bit low in the forge but for now its fine. We put the plumber's torch flame in the forge and open the ball valve (with the blower on). The burner really rocks the forge. You can see the blue jets in the picture. This forge was running hotter than it ever has and heating up very quick with only 2.5 to 3 psi of propane! After we play around and run it a bout 20 minutes, we see that it heats awesomely. We cut the propane, waited for all to cool, and the took apart the forge to examine the flare. There is some minor breaking around one jet but nothing serious. This is the reason I was thinking of a denser castable next time. When running we heard a couple of times a thump and then a low rumbling. I am not entirely sure what is causing it and I will investigate it. It was a low pitched ruble. This flare could be covered with ITC-100 and used. The extra stainless wires will degrade quickly. I might experiment with fewer jets and tinker with the castable process but the burner performs magnificently. The burner is easy to build, low cost and very durable. If you drop it and break it or the castable cracks due to wear, you can recast it easily. It uses a fraction of the propane of my old blown and venturi burner and the increased surface area of flame allows much better heat transfer into the forge. It is a resounding success.
  15. Hello, I've fairly new to the forum. Been reading... and reading... and reading... and, um, reading. Last fall I built a forced air forge running on propane and it's doing ok. However I'm wanting to upgrade (and also I just want to build another forge) and I'm looking into ribbon burners. I know there is a fair amount out there on them. I've read through "THE" instructions (Emmerling), as well as all the information I can find in these forums. I'm still in the early designing stages of this particular forge, but I still have some unanswered questions that are preventing me from deciding if a ribbon burner is the way to go for my needs. I am interested in making the burner myself (as opposed to forking out $200 for a nice pre-made one). As I said, the forge is still in the design stage so I don't yet have definite numbers in terms of size, etc. However I am wondering if a ribbon burner can be effectively used in a forge that is under 1000 cubic inches interior space. I noticed that the smallest Pine Ridge Burner ("4x4 mini-burner") claims to be too large for a forge under 1296 cubic inches volume. I don't anticipate my forge to be over 1000 cubic inches. Can Emmerling's instructions be modified for a forge smaller forge? Has someone already discussed this? I'll leave it at that for now. I'm know I have more questions, and as I think of them I will post them here and hope someone can help. Thanks, Eric
  16. I am putting my gas forge together and I only have ribbon burners. They are three connected together each being about 17 inches long. My forge is a 8x8x28 inch square tube that I plan to insulate with refractory cement and one inch of kaowool.how thick should my cement be and how should I arrange my ribbon burners to prevent melting and get maximum heat? I am fin with using less than three burners if I should.
  17. I am finally getting started on my new forge and wanted to share with you my progress on the burners. This forge will employ None Aspirated Ribbon Burner (NARB) burners, (2). I based the design on Frosty's burner but change the dimensions from the 2X2X7 to 4X4X2.5. I am using the same number of ports (17), but reduced the size from crayons (3/8") to 1/4" as I will use machine threaded bolts in place of the crayons.. Today I ran a test of the burner using a wood insert to take the place of refractory. It fired off nicely, sounds good, and the flame looks ok but I have not turned the MIG tip in the burner yet, I will do that once it is installed into a forge. I ran the pressure from 3lb to 6lb, the flame did not vary, after about 45 seconds I shut it down. The pipe casing you see in the pictures is not the forge body as I do not have the little part yet. Tomorrow I will do a test of the burner refractory with a couple of my machine bolts installed. One with release agent, one without. If anyone has comments or concerns I would like to hear them.
  18. I tried to post this in thread, but keep getting forbidden. sigh. As an update on the blower issue, I have done some more research, talked with one of the engineers that I work with that has done air balancing on ovens, and have come up with some helpful information. I contacted Kayne and sons about the blowers they have, which by the way will do the job in SPADES. The one piece of nomenclature that seems out of place is the way these blowers are rated with regard to static pressure. Static pressure should be rated in inches of water column. So the rating of the blowers in ounces of static pressure is deceptive. They did reply to my inquiry and stated that the manufacturer rated them that way. After 78sharpshooter posted his comment about having to choke his blower down so far, got me thinking about the nomenclature issue with the rating. I think the sp listed can be converted directly to PSI, and that in turn can be converted to water column. going on that premise, the large 164 CFM blower that 78ss has would have 2.5 lbs. PSI of output, that would translate to about 70 inches of water column pressure, which would explain why he has to choke it down so much, if the requirement of a ribbon burner is a minimum of 5 and 7.5 works better, then the wide open 70 that is available will totally exceed the requirement. On a side note, because of the way centrifugal blowers are choked with the inlet being partially ( or mostly ) covered, the motor doesn't have to work as hard, because the impeller is spinning in a negative environment. The reason this works is because the motor doesn't rely on the impeller for air circulation, it has it's own fan for that. As you can see, this is why speed controls don't work well with this type of blower, the motor can't get proper cooling at the lower speeds / higher current that use of a speed control will cause. If anyone has more knowledge about this than I do, please weigh in. These are conclusions I have reached through my research and from the real world experience with this set-up that 78ss presented in his post. Thanks! Storm
  19. Can anyone recommend a cost effective blower that could be used with a ribbon burner? I know that most require 5 lbs. of static pressure. I also know that blowers are available from some of the blacksmith supply houses. But I would like to find a suitable alternative that didn't cost $140 per copy at the start. Like everyone I want to walk the line between spending what is necessary and not over spending. From my research, it seems I would be looking for a centrifugal blower, that has the necessary sp to run the ribbon burner. Can anyone make some recommendations on where they have sourced alternative blowers from and what type of equipment they were aquired from? Thanks, Storm
  20. Hello all. As I find more of my forge time devoted to playing with Damascus and making billets, I’m not liking the fact that I’m heating up 1413 cubic inches of space for approx. 36 cubic inches of material. So I’ve decided I’ve got too much time on my hands and I need another project. I want to make a dedicated, small forge-welding forge. Here’re my options: 1.) Complete my original plan with my current forge (an 18″ length of 14″ diameter 1/4″ steel pipe with 2″ castable refractory for insulation and a 4″x10″ ribbon burner) and cast removable inserts out of Greencast to both shrink the current forge cavity and catch the flux to help preserve the outer layer of cement. Or; 2.) Recast and fix a smaller, atmospheric forge I’ve got. My only concern is the potential hot spot in the middle of the atmospheric forger burning some material. Thanks for the input
  21. Here's a new forge I'm currently building as a portable unit for doing demonstrations. I've still got some work to go. Ribbon burner is made from 3x3x3/16 tube and refractory, using crayons as part of the form. She's not quite getting up to the temperature I'd like and I think I might need to pick up a larger fan in order to get there.. looks to be hovering around 1900-2000F. I could also have a little debris in the plenum, because, like a dumb*ss, I didn't take the paper off the crayons like I normally do - you can see in one of the pictures that it's not burning quite right. Just lined with fiber because I can't afford ITC-100. Wondering if a watered down slick of Vesuvius 3000 (refractory cement) painted on the wool and dried for a few days would help get me to my welding heat. Any thoughts?
  22. Just wanted to share a picture of my new gas forge I built for doing demonstrations at the Pennsylvania Renaissance Faire. I decided having a gasser and a coal forge side by side would allow me to do a few more complicated things, and have things ready to go ala-Julia Chid. We sell swords, knives and other impliments of destruction and people are always curious as to how they're made so I figured having pieces in various stages ready to be worked on might make my half hour shows flow a bit better. I do three of them a day. As for the forge it's essentially two inches of fiber wool, a layer of vesuvius 300, a few more inches of wool, capped off with more refractory and encased in abbey stone. The burner is a 10x2 refractory ribbon being fed from the bottom. I still have a front gate and hood yet to install. Anyway, here's a pic! J I have a few more pictures of the burner build itself that I'll try to upload if my phone decides to work like it's supposed. In the meantime, let me know what you think. Thanks!
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