kniven Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Started building after doing some research online looking through several dead blacksmithing forums and reddit. Did not find this place until after I started. Wish that I did because than I would have changed the material in my oven. right now it’s lined with hard firebricks on the inside and the floor. I’m looking for some guidance now about buying burners. I have found a seller here in Europe named devil forge but since I’m a complete noob I have no idea which model burner I should order. I’m thinking that I will buy two burners. Do you guys have any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 If you choose one of their low end models, you can get your money's worth, but they are not to be considered as "turn-key" equipment. Therefore, choosing one of their more expensive models isn't the best use of your hard earned cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 It looks like the bricks you might be able to get those bricks out of the housing without cutting any welds. Is that the case? If so, my first bit of advice is to change those bricks. Either to the Thermal Ceramic K26 bricks or you could roll, stuff in, and unroll ceramic blanket and go that route. (Blanket, Rigidizer, Kast o Lite, Top Coat) The current bricks will suck up a lot of your heat. It will take a long time, require more burner to heat up and won't get as hot. The standard burner recommendations to forge volume will not apply to your forge, most likely. What is the internal volume of your forge? Keep at it. Based on the look of your work, you should have no problems getting to the forge you want to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvestGapForge Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 That is a great looking cart/frame. Hard bricks .... switch them for soft bricks and coat them with some IR. Regardless what the instructions say, a thick layer of Matrikote is great on soft brick. The Devil Forge burners are great for their price. One problem I noticed is that the burner tips are welded on and they seemed a little flimsy. After some use the flares can flare out so much that if your ports are tight they will get stuck inside of the forge and it becomes a chore to switch them. There are tons of great burners available. I am currently using ones by mathewson metals. They are as good as any and are priced attractively. High temp tools sells all inclusive burner kits as well. I don't know if either shop ships out of the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Another FrankenBurner said: It looks like the bricks you might be able to get those bricks out of the housing without cutting any welds. Is that the case? Yes the housing is just placed on top of the bricks so I can easily replace them. im having trouble finding the stuff I get recommended to buy here in Europe. I can find k26 on eBay but it costs double the amount of the cost of the bricks to ship them to Sweden. And the the same goes for different types of refractories, most places don’t even ship to Europe. But thnx for the advice I will try to up my google game and find resellers or alternatives in the eu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 IIRC Morgan Thermal Ceramics has a European division but I could be wrong. Spending 2x for the right product will pay for itself in propane in about the time you could expect the hard brick to survive if you do any welding. Welding fluxes almost all have a borax component which is very caustic at welding temps which dissolves silicates like the clay in fire brick. It won't just go away but flux WILL eat holes in it. Same for a water setting high alumina castable refractory. K 26 brick has a high enough temp rating that a coat of hard refractory will make it plenty survivable. Alumina rather than silicate to resist flux erosion. Might be someone this side of the pond can ship you a package. None of the refractories, brick or castable are haz mats. I don't know though. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 59 minutes ago, Frosty said: IIRC Morgan Thermal Ceramics has a European division but I could be wrong. They look promising, I’ve sent them an email. Thanks for the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Your welcome, it's my pleasure. One more suggestion though. I've found email is a terribly unreliable way to contact large companies. A phone call is usually much more effective. It's just too easy for a busy office worker to ignore or delete random emails. Too many ads taking up too much inbox space to even scan all the email they get. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Another FrankenBurner said: What is the internal volume of your forge? It’s 296,7 In³ 2 hours ago, HarvestGapForge said: The Devil Forge burners are great for their price. What size of burner would you recommend? They have sizes in smal, medium and large but I have no idea what that relates to. the forge inner size is 296,7 In³ 3 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: If you choose one of their low end models, you can get your money's worth, but they are not to be considered as "turn-key" equipment. Alright, do you know any other brands that would be better? Since I’m a complete beginner I feel that a lot of stuff about this craft and the information I find on this forum is above my head so a “turn-key” variant sounds appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 I can't speak for the burners you guys are talking about but the general rule of thumb I use is "a well tuned 3/4" burner will bring 300-350 cu/i to welding temp." Your's is close enough to round up to 300 cu/in. Were you making a T burner I'd say one 3/4" or two 1/2" T burners. Can't say about those though. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 When you say 3/4 inch burner is that the nozzle diameter? Sorry for the dumb question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvestGapForge Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 If you went with the DF burner I'd guess that one medium would be all you need. I used a double small set up in a forge only a little bit smaller and they were overkill. This is your first forge - it won't likely be your last! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 I found a guy called Sam fowler that sells burner kits. Anyone here have any experience with his burners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 7 hours ago, kniven said: Alright, do you know any other brands that would be better? Since I’m a complete beginner I feel that a lot of stuff about this craft and the information I find on this forum is above my head so a “turn-key” variant sounds appealing. It isn't a question of "better" quality or design. The best you can do is to get your money's worth, and to decide how much finished value you want to afford; that also implies learning enough about forge and burner design to make a well informed choice. Just hang in there, and four or five people will recommend their favorite models. Then, you can research those opinions on this forum and form your own conclusions This path provides a happy medium between spending hundreds of hours researching, and sorting through commercial claims dreamed up by the self-deluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 Update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 10:24 AM, kniven said: Alright, do you know any other brands that would be better? I don't believe you will find a better dollar value in a burner. Since your cubic volume is a little larger than standard go with their large burner; you can always turn it down a little bit. But you won't be able to turn an undersized burner up enough to make it hot enough. Use the bricks taken from the forge to place between it and the table top; that will be your best way to get you worth out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 Alright thank you for the advice. Still haven’t found soft bricks, guess I have to ship from America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Maybe, but in your shoes, I would first look at what kind of emi-insulating refractory is available, and if glass bubble insulation is available to improve on it, first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 I think I will use this burner for a while and get some experience and then build a better forge and just re use the table\cart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 For that matter, Perlte from a garden center can be mixed into refractory to do a similar trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said: Maybe, but in your shoes, I would first look at what kind of emi-insulating refractory is available, and if glass bubble insulation is available to improve on it, first. Never heard about glass bubble insulation I will check it out, another guy also recommended asking in pottery shops for soft bricks. So il do some searching before ordering from us amazon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Soft bricks are usually made by adding a foaming agent to clay bricks; they cannot stand up to the thermal cycles encountered in a forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kniven Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 Ok... maybe I should just drop my pride and go with wool and throw out the bricks. wish I found this site before I started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On the other hand, it's never too late to cut your losses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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