Best Steel?

[HWooldridge]

I know this will start a lively discussion...I am not a knifemaker but I USE knives a lot - mostly to skin and butcher. I use Henckels in the kitchen but have been looking for the elusive hunting knife that will hold an edge thru one whole deer or hog and they don't seem to exist. Some years ago, I bought one of Cold Steel's 'hunter series' in their "Carbon V" material. Was supposed to be their best edge holding knife but would not make it thru a hog without being touched up. I got disgusted with it and gave it to one of my sons. I then went back to the knife shop where I bought it and complained to the salesman. They recommended a 'Katz' folder so I bought one. This blade was hollow ground and pure xxxx to get sharp but it holds an edge better that the Cold Steel model. The blade is stamped "Made in Japan" and "XT80", which I assume is some proprietary steel that may simply be 440C, 420, etc. I can completely skin a deer without touchup but I haven't tried a hog yet.

What do you guys who make 'em think the best steel is, grind style and hardness? I don't mind spending time sharpening thru various grits and plain carbon steel is fine because I take care of a blade after use. Should I try to find one in 1095 or is 52100 a good choice? I just wish I could skin and gut a 200 lb hog without having to stop 3-4 times to sharpen a blade.

I also posted this over on Forge Magic but perhaps some different opinions may surface here.

[bruce wilcock]

of all the blades that hold up , the blades made out of big power hack saw blades seem to be as good as ones we have spent hours making , as regards holding a edge, the 24 ins hack saw blade is a thick thing to start with,pitty they wont stand bending,

[elkdoc]

The consensus seems to be that anything of the stainless variety stinks, but it is popular with production knife co's because it doesn't "tarnish".

52100 seems to be the steel of the gods lately in the custom knife world, from what I'm reading and hearing.

[Archie Zietman]

Vascowear apparently hold the best edge, according to Jim Hrisoulas in his book "The Complete Bladesmith", but I don't think it's in production any more.

[one_rod]

52100 seems to be the steel of the gods lately in the custom knife world, from what I'm reading and hearing.

I have made working knives from 52100, and as long as you get the heat treatment just right, it makes a very tough blade that holds an edge like little else will.

Old roller bearing shells to are usually 52100, and can often be picked up for free in scrapyards. Split with a grinder and forged out straight, they are just the right shape for blade making. This is my favourite source of material.

Here is an interesting piece about some blades made from this stuff.

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10704




one_rod.

[T-Gold]

You may also want to look into forklift wear strips... cannot remember the name of the alloy at the moment. Chopper (Dale) hooked me up with a good-size piece when I was in Oz, and it looks like real good stuff -- tougher than woodpecker lips.

One_rod, thanks for the idea about splitting the bearing shells -- I'd never have thought of that! :)

[Alan B]

Hal,
I made my father in law a damascus knife from 1095 and L-6. It has between 120 and 200 layers. He has skinned and butchered a 1600 pound steer, 500 pound hog and 4 deer with out ever touching it to a stone. He is very happy with it. As far as a single steel goes 52100 is about as tough as it gets if you get the heat treating correct but be prepared to go through a lot of sanding/ grinding belts.
As for the grind, while forging make sure to put in a double taper, from spine to cutting edge and from tang to tip. Then I would recommend a hollow grind for the finished edge.
Alan Brazzel

[ThomasPowers]

Note: it's the smaller bearing sheels that are likely to be 52100; large bearing tend to use case hardened material for the shelll like 8620 IIRC.

I had a smithing student who worked for Timpken bearing as a metallurgist...

Thomas

[oakwoodforge]

I don't like to play favorites, each steel has its use , Big blades I like 5160 for the toughness and springy properties, patternwelding I like L-6 + 1095 or 1084, some times I like just plain 1095 or 1084 by its self , But I also think 52100 kicks some serious butt , a little red hard perhaps , but well worth the work, especialy for woodwacking tools. But my favorite pocket knife has a ATS-34 blade ... so Like I said, I can't play favorites :D

[Quenchcrack]

I think it depends a lot upon what the blade is to be used for. I make carving knives from W1 and O1. They are small and thin and these steels quench out very hard. They are forged and ground to a flat taper, no secondary bevel at the edge. This makes them cut through wood very easily. A sword or clever would never survive with this type of grind, they need a thick bevel to support hacking and chopping. Being thicker, they need some alloy elements to promote deeper hardening. I use my wood carving knives for about 15-20 minutes and then give them a quick stropping. I rarely stone them. I have never butchered a hog but I think if it is a tough skin, meat, sinew, etc, you should probably plan on a bit of stropping or steeling about half way through.

[Rich Hale]

A bit about SS blades,,,I can understand how lots of folks are not happy with the sorry ss blades you see alot of,,,but remember ther are a lot of sorry carbon steel blades also. SS blades have to first be made of good knife making steel,,,Something like 440C,,ATS-34..154CM...There are more but I am familiar with these,,,then they have to be heat treated correctly,,Atmospheric contolled oven for the correct time at the proper temps,,then for finishers a crygenic treatment. The whole of that takes ab out 24 hours...Some folks have had succes doing 440C at home but I send it out also,,,,,Then the blade has to be edged correctly, it just does not work with the Apple seed shape that some makers like on a HC steel blade. When all is correct SS has a respected following of hunters and collectors...If you still feel all SS knives are sorry,,,give it another thought ...

[Wadhams]

I'd have to swear by 5160. They are awesome for making plane blades. They cut through knots and never break...Even when used outdoors at sub zero temps! I cannot tell you how many blades I've seen break when used outdoor in the cold northeast. Note to selves...This stuff dosen't weld to iron well, at least not for me anyway. Alot of old plane blades were wrought iron with a steel bit welded for the cutting edge. Steel used to be precious and would be today if you had to make it. Normalizing your blades will make a surperior blade. Don't be afraid to do it 2 to 3 times with 5160. I also temper my blades 2 to 3 times(each for an hour) as well. 350 for an hour, 375-400 for the second tempering and I finish it off at 400-425. This will give a hardness of 58 or 59Rc. Don't wait to temper this stuff after hardening. There's alot of stress in steel after hardening. Why wait and chance dropping it. I've even heard of blades cracking into two or more pieces overnight just sitting on the bench. Then again those folks never normalized. Hmm...Well the point is that I've never had a knife or blade chip or crack that was made out of 5160! Oh well that's a bit more than 2 cents.