Leah Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 What a weekend. Yesterday, I had a great day in the shop. I did a lot of cleaning up and did some other things I had been putting off. I forged the handles for a fireplace set and called it a day. I got up early this morning and went to the shop to weld the handles onto the tools. Everything went well as I forged the 1/2" round stock into a rooster spur for the poker and forged the end of the broomstick. The broom handle weld went just as it should and I was feeling good - maybe a little too good. I scarfed the end of another piece of stock and got my fire cleaned up. So far so good. When everything was just right, I tried to make the weld and missed it. No problem, just brush it off and flux it again and I will get it this time. Missed it again. Cleaned out the fire to make sure I had not missed a clinker. I will get it this time. WRONG! Sooooo, I go into the house and get another cup of coffee and think about what I could be doing wrong. I decided to try something I had seen in a book and cut a "V" in the round stock, quenched it and drove the hot scarf of the handle onto it and made a scarf that would lock in place. I know I will not miss this weld........ So I got out the welder and tacked it with a 7018 rod and when I brought it out of the forge this time, I gave it a little tap and it broke into two parts. By this time, I am looking at two pieces of burnt, mangled metal and there is so much borax on the floor that it looks like a dope bust gone bad. Murphy had taken over my shop. I mean really, I could not even forge weld it when I had tacked it with a welding machine! I figure most people would have given up about this time and gone to the house. I found out today that I am more hard headed than Murphy. I dug around and found a box of 1/16" 6013 rods and figure "it ain't no good this way, I might as well ruin it for good." I ran the amps all the way down on my little buzzbox and it still was too hot. I sure wish Murphy would leave me alone. I decide to go ahead and give it a try - it can't look no worse. I started building it up a little at a time. I was burning the rod up so fast, all I could really do was dab a little, chip, chip, brush, brush, dab a little more. When I got through, it looked like a big, ragged blob. So back to the forge, clean it out and get my fire going again. I brought the blob up to a red heat, brushed it with everything I had, sprinkled on a little borax and put it back in the fire. I laughed and though, "I am waisting my time for sure." I brought it up to a welding heat, smacked it on the side of the anvil to get rid of the flux and beat the stew out of it. I let it cool a little and brushed it off thinking I would at last give up and let Murphy have the shop to himself. Much to my supprise, it did not look too bad. I fluxed it again and, after a couple of heats, had a nice looking shovel handle. I HAD RUN MURPHY OFF! I swear, you can't tell where the weld is. I finally called it a night and went to the house - but, I saw Murphy peeking around the corner of the shop - he hasn't gone too far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Murphy paid you a visit because I haven't been in my shop for three days. He will leave you as soon as I turn the lights on in my shop. :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Leah, I read your post and am still LMAO. I have had entire weeks go like that then all at once Murphy will get bored with me and move on to some one else. Thanks for sharing this "amusing" happenstance with us. Oh, I'm glad he finally let you get it welded. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian C. Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Leah, Glad you got the weld!! Otherwise it would sound like a normal day of my blundering about the shop. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpile Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Well, Murphys here to. I did not get the pic installed. sorry about that. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Murphy has plenty of siblings - down here, we call his brother "Pinche Cabron" - some of you may get that one... Leah, your experiences have paralleled mine on a number of occasions. If I miss the first time, I usually can't get a weld to take on subsequent attempts unless it is well cleaned before I try again. I let the scarfs cool and grind down to bare metal before going back into a CLEAN fire. One day, I was doing nothing but forge welding for several hours and found I could only do about 7 or 8 before the fire got so dirty the next one wouldn't take. If I followed my observations and cleaned the fire, I could keep going with good results but failing to clean periodically caused much more delays. I often make traditional scarfs and tack them with the MIG to facilitate handling. Old time shops had help standing around to be the third arm but most of us work alone so I don't think it's cheating - especially if the final look is the same...H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Pinche cabron este......yeah, i absolutely understand that Hollis. Leah, in my shop, it's the Leprechauns that play foolishness ( and we all have something ). These days, it's awful nice to be without them ( was 2 below when I started this morning). Not Canada cold but takes a while to get the air warmed up. Glad I ain't had the little pests lately but you never know, they show up unannounced.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Curious about not being able to weld in a 'dirty' fire. So far I have not had that problem. CLinker ash or waht ever, makeds no diffenece. Unless your air flow is so blocked that you do not get the heat up enough. If it is scarfed right and it is hot enough it should not matter about the fire. ( with the exception of having copper in the fire.....) Just my 2 cents worth Ralph 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Ralph, After about 30-45 minutes of forging heats, I'll have a clinker that will cover the bottom of the firepot, which will be about 4 inches square and a half inch or so thick. The blower also sprays it everywhere so the iron gets little pieces sticking here and there plus it clogs the blast and cools the fire. Some of the reasons for clinker formation are in the coal itself - I have some really junky stuff but it cokes well and gets very hot (and it was pretty cheap when I bought it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Ralph. Some of what you heard about is called clincker coating. As the fire gets hot enough the clincker is emitting a colorless gas that coats the steel and prevents welds from sticking, much like scale. I have had success welding with a dirty fire but it does help to clean out the trash first. Remember that clinckers are the remnants of the rock that forms with the coal when it was formed. When the fuel of the coal is burnt off, only the nonflamable rock is left. This is why blacksmithing coal is best when rated as Low Ash. I recently bought some coal that. when done burning, leaves me with about 40% ash by volume. Horrable stuff. And they said it was blackmith coal. Not worthy of a coal furnace to me. Keep the forges burning. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Actually clinker is a form of LOW grade glass. SO it is mostly sand and ash AS for welding in a dirty fire you should see a fellow by the name of Mark ASpery ( Californina) do weld after weld all done with ease and then see him pull out a hugh pile of clinker.... He also is a non flux welder. At least with common steel and mild steels. Never have I seen him weld some of the exotic steel alloys Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce wilcock Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 as long as the clinker lets the air through its best left well alone ,if the clinker hasnt a hole through it and the air has to go under the clinker and makes a fire without a center ,use a slice and make a hole in the clinker and carry on ,when we weld anchors the clinker fills the bottom of a wheel barrow when we have finished and got it out, when men start digging holes in the fires ,cleaning the fire at nearly every heat,when up with me learning , i see red,and turn into a monster, thats when i get out the pics of chainsmiths working with great piles of chain at the side of them ,and ask the man thats just dug a hole in the fire for the fourth time in a hour, did he think the chainsmiths cleared the fire at each weld ,on small chain, and if they did ,haw did they manage to make all that chain, most of the problems are working with thin fires and too mutch air. sorry for going on but to se men digging holes in fires brings the best out in me,no ones walked of on me yet ,but thers time yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Bruce WELL SAID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strine Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 I see red when someone comes along and pokes his bit of stuff into the fire. Just when I've managed to balance a piece of coke here and another one there for a specific purpose such as to protect a fine point. This usually happens at 'away games' where there's lots of smiths and less forges. No matter, I just walk away, taking the chance for a spell. Common courtesy wouldn't hurt though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 Thanks guys. You have given me some things to think about and try this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakwoodforge Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Leah, Just be glad your not Danish, we have "Nissen " (mischevious little shop elves) They are always hiding that punch or chisel you need , or making your welds fail. According to family ledgend If you feed them they will help you but they don't seem to like what I am putting out, either that or the dog is beating 'em to it. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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