Identification and guidance please

[Netz44]

I’m don’t want to be a jerk that posts a sentence and a terrible picture and has to have you guys tell me pictures and descriptions help, so I tried my best to help you help me. 

Picked this guy up over the weekend for $85 in west central Indiana. Plainly you can see it’s been broken and used quite a bit. Any glaring characteristics that will help with identifying it?

And what is the next step in getting it ready for use. I’ve seen sandblasting, electrolysis, wire wheel, vinergar, and so on and so forth. I’m just hoping to get a little advice and thank you in advance for taking the time to help.

I see a small o and then a 1 (maybe or something else idk) I think, and definitely  22. I was told it was a 130lb anvil. I was looking at the same side of the number and saw a small x but other than those I can’t find any markings yet. And with the part missing I could see it being 1*128 + 2*26 + 2lbs= 182 - 50 lbs(for the broken part) and it being 130lbs. Although I haven’t weighed it I believe it is definitely close to that weight.  It does have handling holes on both sides and the bottom. The one picture I messed with the color a little bit to try to get the number to stand out better.

While I should have but didn’t put a reference item or measured it I would say from horn to break is around 20”. If it will help greatly I’ll dimension the whole xxxx thing.  I know an anvil doesn’t have to be great to get the job done and I’m happy to have it. 

In todays market where I’ve been pricing anvils at between $ 4/5 a lb., $85 makes me suspicious even though it’s “broken”. I’m planning on making blades and some tools. So although a hardy hole would be optimal for my first anvil I’m kind of shocked that I found one for so cheap. I did a ping test and while my ears aren’t the best I hit it and definitely hear a ping. Don’t have a ball bearing yet to test a rebound yet but with a hammer I could feel a rebound. 

I know you shouldn’t grind the face of it but I can’t help but want to clean it up and flatten it out some. Idk if it’s my ocd or what... 

Thanks 

dean 

[stevomiller]

I can’t help identify it, sorry not my expertise.

However on the rest of it these are my thoughts:

The face is still crowned near the horn, that’s good and the way it came from the forge that made it. Most weren’t perfectly flat from side to side. This can actually help you move metal faster when hammered over this area.

I’d very carefully clean the mushroomed edges so they didn’t get in the way of me forging next to the edge since you mentioned bladesmithing. I’d also carefully square the heal where it broke. Wire wheel the top face and horn, bolt it down tight and use it. Don’t grind or mill down the top faces surface or weld a plate on it unless you are a master welder and have a 1.5 to 2” thick medium carbon steel plate you full contact welded to the face, and at that were willing to send it out for professional heat treating post welding (unless you used a steel like H13 or S7). It would still be an odd duck though, as your heel would need to be short as it would be unsupported, although you get that hardy hole. BUT, then what? It’s somewhat like a salvage title on a really smashed car, twisted frame, you name it. You restore best you can, it’s never quite right for the money and effort, and no one will buy it from you paying the extra you put into it. 

Anyways, the portion you have left is right over the sweet spot for forging, all the mass is under your hammer blows. Yes a hardy hole would be very useful, but you can definitely get by without.

Save your money while you use this one to learn, and make your next anvil (if you wish to) a more pristine example. My 2 cents, from a guy known to have possibly no sense (but sometimes some odd scents).

[ThomasPowers]

Where the heck did you get those numbers?  The CWT system has the left most digit times 112  (a hundred weight) the middle digit times 28 (a quarter hundredweight and so only 0-3 possible) and the rightmost digit or digits the remainder (and so only 0-27)

Now 1 0 22 would have been 134 pounds; but there is a lot missing.  A bathroom scale will give a weight close enough for smithing work.

If it passes the ring and ball bearing test then it will make a great anvil at a very good price.  I have a Powell that is missing the heel and I use it for heavy work by students as I don't have to worry about students with sledges very much...

What you need to do to get it ready to use: mount it on a stand and place hot swteel on it and HIT IT!   Hot steel will clear the face nicely. As for grinding on it---DON'T!!!! or only remove as much off it's face as you would off your own face---and do your face first!  It's in great shape for bladesmithing.

As for maker; well it's one of the over 200 English anvil makers; without finding stamping that's pretty much all that can be said. (Especially as many anvil makers learned the trade working for Mousehole or Peter Wright and so the anvil they started making often look like those as well.)

[stevomiller]

I was so rambling that part of what I wanted to convey might get lost.Take my third and fifth section and put it together, and it will kind of say “ what you got there should work nicely for bladesmithing” . 

[Netz44]

Stevo- thanks and I appreciate all the info. You confirmed some of my thoughts and eased others. 

T- i pulled them from memory. I have very little bouncing around up there, so those should have been easy to remember but.....that’s why we have you guys to tell us guys how it really works. I’ll be writing that down.  I will not grind my face or it’s face.  And since putting it to work will clean it up so I will be doing that ASAP.

 Thanks again. 

 

[Dave51B]

Netz, Have you been to the Parke Co. fairgrounds blacksmith shop ? Great group of guys there. Meetings are first Sat. of the month.      Dave

[ThomasPowers]

NP; but we end up posting the CWT system info here on at least a weekly basis...

And we are a bit harsh about people new to the craft who want to "improve" their tools with no experience to guide them in what can/should be done.  I have seen a half dozen usable anvils totally destroyed by milling.  The Machinists were expert machinists---but didn't know squat about how anvils were made and used; several of them they didn't allow for them being hand forged on open dies under a steam hammer and so probably NOT parallel between face and base---they milled the top flat and parallel milling THROUGH the hardened face and into the soft wrought iron. Another anvil they wanted sharp edges (I have a 128 year old book that says basically "is anyone so ignorant as thinking an anvil should have sharp edges" as they tend to cause cold shuts in your work.) Anyway they had the anvil face milled down until it was too thin to use for hammering steel on.  In 37 years smithing I am now up to 4, IIRC, anvils I have seen that I would have suggested milling on---and even then flip the anvil upside down and true the base to the face---we don't care so much about losing base material.  Then flipping it back upright and just kissing the face as lightly as possible.

Welders come in second; especially ones who don't realize that while the body of many anvils is quite mild the face is high carbon and so welding on them with no preheat/slow cool just makes the problems worse as the HAZ cracking ends up causing even worse loss of face materials. (If you think about it an anvil qualifies as a huge chill plate!)  Or they don't realize that they are hardened and tempered and preheat them too hot leaving the face soft afterwards.

[Stash]

Looks very similar to an unidentified  anvil I have, but mine is missing the horn. Be cool to mount them together on one stump. Mine has a hardie hole, but no pritchell, so maybe pre 1830 ish. as yours looks a lot like mine in what is left to compare, yours might be the same era, either colonial or early English.

Steve