Foot Helve sketch, design finalised

[Sam Salvati]

Here is the finalised design sketch. The hammer head and anvil will be made from 2 3/4 round, It is what I have, I would use bigger but I do not have it. The hammer head is roughly 20 pounds, the anvil roughly 60, so I guess a 3:1 anvil to hammer ratio? AGain not ideal but it's better than tubing:D. The dies are going to be 3 inch wide by 1 1/2 inch thick and 1 1/2 or maybe 2 inch tall. There is the F (front) R (right side) and L (left side) veiws, garage door spring holds tension on the pedal in the up position, keeping the hammer head up, I might need to add another spring, we'll see when it is built. Notice the attachment plate for the pillowblock bearings, there will be room for little spacer plates to be added between, to make the helve arm adjustable for working larger stock, which is usually the downfall of the helve design. Coarse thread bolts and nuts will make changing in or out an adjustor plate quick and easy. Bolt on changeable dies as well.

I know, all this thought and effort to a little foot powered hammer when I could probably build a tire power hammer or rusty type hammer, but I like the foot powered machines, not as efficient as a powerhammer but I feel there is more of a connection left with the foot powered stuff. The goal I have for this hammer is for it to atleast move more metal than the arm is capable of without risking injury to the arm. Hopefully I can pull that off. Comments, critique, questions welcome.

[rfb343]

Looks pretty cool to me, if it works well, post some scale drawings I'd love to try one but I'm pretty machinery stupid.

[Sam Salvati]

Thanks RF. WHen it is all done, there will be a set of plans complete with measurements, as well as a BP to go along with it.

[philip in china]

On youtube there is some 100 year old silent film of chain making in the British Midlands. A smith on that is using a foot helve to forge weld every link. Very interesting.

[arftist]

That looks good. I think building this hammer will give you valuable experience towards building a power hammer, and they actualy serve different purposes anyway. I too await your blueprint.

[simmonds]

If anyone can pull this off, you can. Keep a photo journal as you go. Chris

[rlarkin]

Looks good, but I have a couple observations, as I am in the first stages of laying one out.

1) Seems to me that the connection from the treadle to the hammer arm should connect to both both sides of the pivot to eliminate any one sidded stresses.

2) Shouldn't the hammer arm have some flex to it?

Like I said. Just observations. So far I have 2 different springs for the return, a complete spring pack from a 3/4 ton cheby, a several lengths of I beam, C chanel, and 4" square.
Now all I need is the time.

[ThomasPowers]

A lot of the ones I have seen have the back tube extend up and the pivot mounted on a piece of tubing that slides up and down on the back tube so you can adjust height without taking things apart. The spiffer ones use a crank and a track so you can adjust on the fly.

Also having the force to return the hammer up supplied at the very end of the lever arm will take a lot more spring than if you can attach it somewhere in the middle.

[Frosty]

Sam:

Is there a reason you're building a helve instead of adding a second arm and having a perpendicular head hammer?

Along with sensitivity to height there's the fact that top and bottom tooling never matches. You'll need spring tooling for any but the most basic processes.

The increase in complexity is almost nil but the improvement in efficiency is pronounced.

The simple mod, leaving all else the same is to extend the post a foot or so and mount your pillow blocks on the face rather the end. Add a second arm and attach the ram with pivots.

Everything else can remain the same.

Nice sketches regardless and a together design. I don't see an obvious failure issue.

Frosty

[Sam Salvati]

Thanks for the input guys.
Rlarkin, I don't think it is needed if everything is solid enough, there shouldn't be any twisting action or undo stress. I don't think the helve arm needs to flex, atleast not with a foot powered one.

Thomas, that is a good idea. Trying to keep it as simple as can be, If I were to make it with the screw adjust I would have to make it very very nice with the turn handle at a right angle coming to the front of the machine, I'll keep it in mind as a possible mod, or for when I build another, larger one. Part of the design idea for this one is lift on the truck and go, simple light yet hard hitter for basic forging processes, simple to build and fix if needed. I still haven't figured the exact position of the link between the pedal and helve itself just yet, that will come when it is built.

Frosty, cause I already built one of those:D. I have the treadle for the more advanced tooling work, just want this one to do one thing, basic hard forging. Draw tapers, draw length IE tong reins, work down larger bars, stuff like that.

[rfb343]

Sam,
So heres my question, what exactly is the difference between this and a tredle? I've dont want a power hammer as I try and have all my tooling availible if I aint got no power so I like human powered stuff... Most tredle designs I've seen wont do anything I cant do with a big hammer(yeah I know I'll regret it as I get older, but I've got lotsa those issues already) by myself as I dont have any access to a striker but once in a blue moon... so yer plan seems to be the answer as I'd like to starting making some sledges, broad axes and the like.

[Sam Salvati]

Mark, most treadles are designed for using tooling, not for strictly forging. As you say yourself most treadles you have seen won't do anything you can't with a big hammer, as they are not really made for forging. Hopefully this one will be able to move metal good enough to make it viable over just using a larger hammer. I built the treadle in hopes that it would do that, but alas it is better for tooling and stuff than forging.

[rfb343]

Sam,
Sounds great I cant wait for the updates!!! MORE POWERS!!! WOOT!!

[Frosty]

Thanks for the input guys.

Frosty, cause I already built one of those:D. I have the treadle for the more advanced tooling work, just want this one to do one thing, basic hard forging. Draw tapers, draw length IE tong reins, work down larger bars, stuff like that.

Uh. . . That's right, you even posted pictures.

Have you considered building an Oliver that backs to your regular anvil? The arm either swings to the side or up and locks when you don't need it.

Frosty

[Sam Salvati]

I thought about making one for right there at the anvil, I would weld it right to my farrier's stand and make the whole thing one big peice of equipment, but I like to move all around my anvils. Though lately I have been favoring my larger anvil lately I might just do that, with that height screw adjustment you guys were talking about too. May as well build it while I am at this one too.

[rfb343]

Uh. . . That's right, you even posted pictures.

Have you considered building an Oliver that backs to your regular anvil? The arm either swings to the side or up and locks when you don't need it.

Frosty

Whats an Oliver?

[Glenn]

BP0186 Oliver, the Hammer

[Max Mulholland - Tetnum]

if i may borrow one from glen
"If someone questions your standards, they are not high enough. " -glen;)
they questioned the pillow blocks so this plan dosent sound like over kill

[Frosty]

There's a big difference between questioning the suitability of one device or another in an application and questioning a person's standards.

Using bushings instead of bearings will be fine, what you propose isn't overkill at all. On the other hand you can change bearings out of a set of pillow blocks a couple times much faster than you could make the bushing setup.

I'd use the bearings myself, it's not like you're hanging half a ton off them, with a little grease now and then they'll last a couple decades anyway.

Frosty

[Jacob]

You already have a treadle hammer, and it doesn't hit like a power hammer. Where is the new mechanical advantage that will make this one hit harder? It sounds like you're building the same thing, with some different angles, and expecting it to be something else. The best it will do is if you maximize the efficiency. Use a heavy solid anvil, heavy cross section supports, and good bearings with a proper fit. It will still get tired of drawing out that heavy cross section exactly when you do.