Forging with Pipe

[Walking Dog]

Hello, I've got an assortment of black pipe up to 3-inch and I've been practicing making bells from it. The biggest so far is from the 3-inch schedule 10 pipe. I've made a large swing arm guillotine tool and acquired a large V-block, and I think I'm beginning to get a feel for the process, but I would like to find out what I might be missing.

Are there any books that discuss the subject of "pipe forging" that anyone can refer me to?

I've heard somewhere that my V-block should be at a 117 degree angle. (What I've got is 90 degrees.) Is there any basis for this, or is it just a rumor?

[Thomas Dean]

Not sure about any books on the subject although I'm sure there are some. The 117 degree V block will allow the larger pipe to 'set in' deeper in the V block. Depending on the size of pipe and V block you could get unwanted markings on the sides of your pipe from the tighter V block. Got Pictures? :)

[primtechsmith]

You may want to ask a guy by the name of Ralph Sproul...He is over at forgemagic a lot and he has forged a lot of pipe and has a lot of fixtures he uses under his power hammers to do the job.

Peyton

[Mills]

My vee block is a little more than that, I think a little heavier angle to the 117 mark will be a good choice. I do like the wider better than a 90.

[pete46]

The Artist Blacksmith By Peter Parkinson Has A Section On Pipe & Tubing .
IT'S NOT EVEN A WHOLE CHAPTER BUT IT WAS VERY EDUCATIONAL.

[Walking Dog]

Thank you all for the helpful replies. I've ordered Peter Parkinson's book by ILL. I've done quite a bit of searching on the Forgemagic site, and I'm finding bits of information, but no dissertation on the subject. There is a passing reference there to making your V-block 117 degrees, but why that number and not just "120" or more than a right angle? Hopefully, this isn't getting too theoretical, but I am curious.

I'll be getting some pictures taken soon to post.

[irnsrgn]

I have made lots of bells out of pipe and have forged other things out of pipe, never used a V block yet, what do you do with it.

Pipe is fickle if you get it to a yellow heat when fullering it will just mush sideways when you hit it, work it at just above a bright red just into the orange stage and it will compress or depress without deforming like at a yellow.

The only time you work a bell at a yellow is when you flare the bottom end on the horn of the Anvil so that the pipe and seam don't split.

I just slip the yellow heated very end over the Horn of the Anvil and wiggle it around while pushing on the other end to start the flare, then on the second heat, position on the horn at an angle and tap the unheated side lightly to increase the flare to what I want. Then put the hot flare on a flat surface and hit the cold up end to make a nice straight edge.

If you have a second anvil tip it over on its heel and base on the floor to do the wiggling around to start the flare, you can even hit the cold end with a hammer to hasten the flaring, just be careful and don't work it to cold or it will split especially at the seam.

[steveh]

i like to make snail shells out of 1in pipe.forge it down,then roll it up.

[Awalker]

I would be very interested to see some pictures of both of your pipe bells. I have made some cylinder bells in the past but quit doing them when they got to be so ubiquitous.

[philip in china]

This is an old thread but I just remembered one thing. You probably already know it. When working with pipe either forging or quenching, you can get a cruel amount of heat up the middle of the pipe which can spoil the rest of your day if it contacts your skin!

[irnsrgn]

LOL, standard operating procedure is mud, woodene plug, wet paper or cloth stuck in the handle end to prevent the chimney effect.

When I demoed for the public, I just used to drive that end into the ground and twist to seperate the plug so it would stay in. Mud does have a tendency to dry out and eeither fall out, slip down to the working area or just disintigrate tho.

[Walking Dog]

Hello Again,

I've attached a picture of some of the pipe bells that led me to open this thread. They are 3-inch schedule 10, 2-inch schedule 40, and 1 1/4-inch schedule 40.

Forging pipe has been a learning experience. I've been using the guillotine tool, the anvil, and a large 90-degree V-block. The guillotine tool draws the metal, so when I tried to take the 3-inch schedule 10 down to 1/2 inch I.D., it got too thin and tore. I had much better luck with the hammer and V-block. For the smaller pipe, the anvil step works. I can also take the pipe down freehand on the anvil, but I think the V-block gives a bit better control to keep it moving evenly without collapsing. Yes, it seems to behave better at a red (not orange) heat, but if I do too much when it's cold, it splits the seam.

With regard to the chimney effect, I've been cutting the pipe to length first and then welding a light porter bar on to one end. This avoids taking a heavy length of pipe in and out of the fire. The chimney doesn't burn my hand either, but I still need to block the end when it drafts coal smoke out from under the hood.

Parkinson's book refers to using pipe and tubing, but no special info on the methods to work it.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions. I've got a 3-inch schedule-40 in progress which is down to 1/2-inch I.D. with little loss of wall thickness. I'm taking pictures as I go so perphaps I be able to post again when it's done.

Walking Dog

[pete46]

Please Do A Bp On This!
I'll Have The Ladies Scream'n Like Elvis! :o

[philip in china]

I want to make some bells for a friend of mine here who is a percussionist. So please let's have some pics of one in progress.

[Don A]

I second the request for a BP.

Those look really nice.

[steveh]

how do you attach the clapper ?

[Walking Dog]

The sketch will show what I've been doing for the clapper and stem. The pipe-bell is drawn down (to about 1/2-inch ID for a 3-inch pipe). Round stock is fullered and drawn down to fit inside the neck on the pipe (in this case, 3/4-inch round stock). The end of the stem is gently flattened and punched (about 3/16 in this case). I clean up the hole with a tiny file. The clapper is drawn out of round stock as illustrated. Sometimes I upset the clapper end to give it more mass. Draw down the attachment end to a fine point, file out any rough places, and hang it on the stem with a very loose swinging joint. Sometimes I put the clapper on before the stem goes into the bell; sometimes after.

Stick weld bell to the stem in the gap provided, then go to the forge and draw out the welded joint and the rest of the stem as desired. Hopefully, the signs of the weld disappear in the process.

[pete46]

Walk'n Dog , Thank you very much! i am going to try and add the bells to my bottle trees . Musical and pretty, oh yea the ladies will sing!

[fat pete]

hey pete let me see your bottle trees

[steveh]

thanks for the info on the clapper,those bells are very nice.

[irnsrgn]

FWIW, when I made bells, I made the clapper and piece that held it in and fullered around the holding stem part, then put the stem in from the open bell while the neck of the bell was hot and fullered the neck down into the stem fullered groove. made it a part of the bell that way, sometimes I forged the stem afterwards as a hanging device.

[irnsrgn]

impromtu bell made at Joe Rolfes Hammerin a few years ago for some little girls bicycle, requested by Jim C I think, Leah was my asst/helper. penny for size.

I also made a school teachers bell for my teacher daughter with a basket twist handle, but am unable to find a pic of it at the moment.

[pete46]

irnsgn just pound out another one we wont mind!:rolleyes:

[High Plains Forge]

Hey thanks for the bell information guys, I would have never thought of that. I'm going to have to try one.