coops1911 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 So been asking questions lately trying to sort out the best forge for a first timer and this is what I came up with. Started off with this, and at the advice of the members here came to the conclusion it will be too big and need two burners. Also the fact i can probably only work a couple inches of steel at a time. was 24inches long and I cut it down to 12" Just fired the silica ridgidizer tonight, seemed to go well its got 2 one inch layers of 2600 degree ceramic wool. and then once I have the kast o lite from wayne it will get approx 1/2" coating of that then metrikote. I'm not sure about the burner though, I kind of used my own design which might have been a mistake.......picture is it running at 15 psi. i'm figuring this is going to be a fuel hog? Also i'm thinking the burner flare is probably sticking into the forge too much ( 1.5"), risk it melting as its only brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Any advice is much appreciated. THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Rebuild the burner in steel with a stainless steel flare. That brass flate will not last long. The flare should be about 1/8" or so inside the wool to protect it from flames. Even with proper placement brass will melt quick. Forgot to ask you did ridgidize the blanket correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 yea that's probably best, could make the new flare with this setup I suppose then construct something else. In hindsight brass was kinda dumb to use, interested to see how long it would last though. what type of burner would be best with this setup? internal space is approx 300 cu/in 19 minutes ago, Binesman said: Rebuild the burner in steel with a stainless steel flare. That brass flate will not last long. The flare should be about 1/8" or so inside the wool to protect it from flames. Even with proper placement brass will melt quick. Forgot to ask you did ridgidize the blanket correct? yup both layers had the ridgidizer applied, I then fired the 1st layer until most moisture was gone and blanket hardened. I then repeated the process with the second layer of blanket and of course everything will be encapsulated in kast o lite and metrikote. I don't want any exposed ceramic fibers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I've looked at both flame photos, and they are acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 yellow brass melting point is 1700ish so it will melt in the first forging session. a 3/4" Tburner will do very nicely in that size forge. judging from the look of your work you will have no problems putting one together easily and they are very inexpensive. The plans are pinned here in the gas forge section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Can you define best? Does price to buy or run factor in? Ease of finding? Temperature range? (Platinum flares are really really great for forge use...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 whipped up a T burner works well and at much lower psi, was running it at about 10 in the pictures. now is it normal for the flare to get that hot that quick? only ran it for about 5-8 minutes. IMG_0235.MOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Pull the flare OUT of the forge chamber! It only wants to be a little way into the liner not in the forge chamber. Things in the forge are supposed to get hot. The flame looks pretty good. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 make sure the flare is up inside the blanket to help protect it from the HOT FORGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Roger that, will fiddle with it some more tomorrow. thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/8/2018 at 9:19 PM, coops1911 said: and of course everything will be encapsulated in kast o lite and metrikote. I don't want any exposed ceramic fibers. You would do well to leave a small steam and water drain hole (about 1/8") in the bottom of the forge to allow collected moisture to escape through before heating the seal coating. The second "T" photo shows an excellent flame. I think that both your efforts and photo records have been outstanding so far. I don't know why they haven't generated more comments. Would you look to go into your door design more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 There is a hole in the bottom of the forge where I attached the tripod stand, I think the moisture could escape through the wool down here. should i just poke a hole through the kast o lite before setting? Have been pondering the door setup and not quite sure what would work best, was thinking about welding a little angle iron shelf to hold a fire brick and just use that as a door.....not sure though. The T burner works great and is super simple to build. should of done it like that off the get go. Also one thing about the kast o lite, right now its a bit cold here in the shop (around 0-5 C) was planning on putting a heater and I have a humidifier was wondering if that will be helpful in the curing process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/12/2018 at 12:38 PM, coops1911 said: There is a hole in the bottom of the forge where I attached the tripod stand, I think the moisture could escape through the wool down here. should i just poke a hole through the kast o lite before setting? No. The Kast-O-lite refractory constitutes a seal coat for the ceramic insulation (((among other things). It is to keep water content from being trapped as the steam between the seal coat and steel container that you need a weep hole. And yes, the existing threaded hole will probably do just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 got my package from Wayne (thanks). Did my best to put an even coat of the refractory on. It's a bit tough to work with, maybe didnt do the best job but no cracks or anything. Not sure if the forge is getting hot enough though, got a piece of half inch round stock cherry red in about 10 mins, haven't put the mertrikote on yet though, and i'm sure that will be an improvement. Also sometimes after running the flame will back fire and go out briefly then reignite, perhaps too rich??? Regrets so Far: Should of designed the door better, as it is now its welded sealed, so repairing the inside is going to be tough, Also should of made the top detachable from the base, its fairly heavy and kind of a pain to move around, Could of used 15 pounds of kast o lite and built up the floor so that it is flat, I guess i can put a fire brick in there to make the bottom of the door flush all the way along the forge floor, but it will be a heat sink. Inside volume is on the bigger side and not sure if it will get to welding temps IMG_0250.MOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 That, sure enough, looks like some sort of "T" burner, which is Frosty's business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Def frostys business with the burner. The die out when its hot enough to reignite is usualy from hot exhaust coming up by your air intake. Can you show us a picture of your burner mount please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 59 minutes ago, Binesman said: Def frostys business with the burner. The die out when its hot enough to reignite is usualy from hot exhaust coming up by your air intake. Can you show us a picture of your burner mount please. It may of not been the best way to mount the burner because it has zero adjustability but its what i thought of in the moment and just went with it. I welded a 3" by 1" pipe nipple to the outside of the forge body, then slid the 3/4" burner tube trough that then screwed on the bell reducer from the inside of the forge. excuse the messy welding its only my 4th attempt. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 The flame looks good, the burner looks to be good enough. Try not to EVER use fire brick in a small shop or hobby forge it's too much of a heat sink. Casting the bottom of a cylinder into a flat floor with straight Kast-O-Lite makes a bigger heat sink even if it is "insulating," don't do that either. Instead, lay a piece of Kaowool on the bottom and either peal the edges or fill the gaps with shredded Kaowool to make a smooth transition to the cylinder. Then plaster with Kast-O-Lite like the rest of the forge interior. Just because I said lay A piece doesn't make that THE thing to do, use as much or little as necessary to make the floor size or reduce the forge volume to what you need/want. On humid or cold days I hang a light bulb in the forge to help it set and cure. Kast-O-Lite doesn't dry, it sets and cures in the same way concrete does so you MUST prevent freezing and it likes 75 - 85 f. at 100% humidity during cure once it's set. That's for max strength though and we can stint some. It's not easy to spread with a knife, trowel, etc. I ended up getting it close then laying a piece of steel on it and tapping it a lot with a hammer. Another method was to ram it in place with a mallet. The techniques "worked" I hardly call them good, they just work. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Your welds look better than mine so dont feel bad. That type of mounting is fine and probably not whats causimg it to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Frosty said: The flame looks good, the burner looks to be good enough. Try not to EVER use fire brick in a small shop or hobby forge it's too much of a heat sink. unfortunately i didn't order enough kast o lite o finish the floor ( shipped from Tennessee to British Columbia), going to see if I can find some local material to finish the floor, have some left over kaowool i can use to shape the floor just need something to cover it.......suppose metrikote alone wouldn't do the trick? today is day 3 since i applied the kast o lite, first day it was rainy so high humidity and i had a heater on it for about 36 hours, did one firing got it up around 500 C and let it cool overnight then next night did the same but hotter and for a bit longer and let it cool for 24 hours which bring us to now. Should I fire it up as hot as possible now? 9 hours ago, Binesman said: Your welds look better than mine so dont feel bad. That type of mounting is fine and probably not whats causimg it to die. haha thanks, one question i have is how hot should the exterior of the forge get?,, after running for 20 mins or so the burner mounting area is just barely too hot to touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Kitty litter, clay based. to level it then place a section of kiln shelf on top of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 19 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Kitty litter, clay based. to level it then place a section of kiln shelf on top of that. will this work ? maybe kaowool with a layer of kitty litter over top?? Also have access to this stuff, was thinking about using some on the floor to secure things from shifting.......good or bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Bentonite clay, limestone; looks ok, Fragrance---I'd skip I've never tried the furnace cement myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 yea the fragrance worried me a bit, will do a burn test to see if it affects it....pre packaged stuff from the dollar store,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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