Feukair Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 Feukair, I'm just learning myself and your misfortune brought a question to mind. Did you normalize the blade before hardening? This is heating to critical and allowing to cool without quench to releases the stresses that builds up in forging. Some more experienced bladesters might correct me or perhaps fill in the gaps for me But I'm not even sure it has to be done with all steels. It was recommended for the 5160 I am using. the guy that supplied me the material suggested normalizing 3 times before I harden it. Hi Dodge, I'm pretty sure this one cracked because it was too hot in the area of the crack when i quenched. Another of my knives which i got, far along in the process of polishing, also showed a small hairline crack. At that time i remembered that the same thing occured in that area of that blade, a brighter color than the rest of the blade during the quench. So I'm even more frustrated with myself on this one that i let myself get impatient and did the same thing again. I was making this knife for a friend, and now he'll have to wait longer for his blade... I did what i believe is called annealing... After forging i brought the whole knife up past critical temp (magnet test) and plunged it in a large bucket of ashes and left it until cool enough to handle, which takes quite a few hours. I did not do what i understand to be normalizing. I was reading some on that this am. I believe normalizing is bring the piece up past critical then letting it air cool. The reading I found this am recommended normalizing 3 times (as you say) and then annealing once. (by the definitions above) I've always annealed my blades after forging, i also anneal my metal (W1 drill rod) before working with it. I'm going to take your advice and start normalizing 3 times and annealing. As you say, i don't know if W1 requires it. I'm no metallurgist but it seems to be a common recommendation in the bladesmith world so i suspect it would do less harm than good for any of the steels guys like you and me would use. Thanks again guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 dude that is a verry nice knife, good craftsmanship, i think an oak or ebony handle would look stunning on that blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rravan Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 what are you uing as your quenching medium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 how do you harden.temper a sen? i would like to have one to use.i got a 4 x 36" belt sander/ 6" dics at Lowes for 100$ but i can't get very fine grits for it locale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadgreg Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Jimmy, I was inquiring on another knifemaking forum about making one of these for myself, and I was told that they are left fairly hard.. hard enough to crack if dropped! Im no expert tho so i cant tell you I've used it and it works.. but I am currently grinding one I forged the other day and Ii plan on leaving it hard to see how it works. Feukair, that is/was a very nice knife you have.. excellent craftsmanship. hopefully the next one wont crack :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feukair Posted April 13, 2008 Author Share Posted April 13, 2008 Thanks for the comments guys. If the sen were shaped like the one in that link i posted I would probably harden the whole thing then draw a temper on the tangs using a blow torch until the metal turned blue about 1/2 to 3/4" into the body of the sen. Like the way the tempering color on the tang of a new file looks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feukair Posted December 24, 2008 Author Share Posted December 24, 2008 Well I finally finished this sashimi knife I'm making for a friend. Now that I have my belt grinder built I've been able to put it to use actually finishing some of the half worked projects I've had laying around. So the first blade I made in this thread actually cracked, this is the 2nd attempt which survived a more simple heat treating, but it's for the same knife so I'll call it the same project. I still have to stamp my touch mark on it... Anyways, here it is... handle and scabbard are maple, black collar on the handle is buffalo horn, and the pin to lock it in the scabbard is ebony. This turned out so good now I have to make one for myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Have you ever had that feeling... That everything is just right You got it. Congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalMuncher Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Hello Feukair, I believe we might have spoken before(forge welding help?) Any way, I really liked that knife dude, I'm thinking about making one for my sister, who likes making sashimi. I just had a quick question, how did you fit the handle, and how is it stuck in there? Did you use a pin or something? Thanks man, keep up the good work, and merry Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 I like using W1 and O1 for simple blades and you did a fine, job on this one, Feukair. The crack on your first blade might have been because of the very thin cross section. When I use W1 for thin blades, I oil quench them. The very thin cross section will cool very fast in oil but the oil is less severe than water. I have actually used a stream of compressed air to harden O1 on thin blades. Just point the tip of the blade into the air stream and it will cool in a few seconds. You can quickly get the blade below a black heat and then oil quench it, too. Remember, martensite BEGINS to form at about 700F IF you have cooled fast enough to miss the pearlite nose. It finishes forming near or below room temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I know a fellow who makes hide knives and other thin blades from simple steels like 1080 and such. He has a big piece of aluminum that is pretty flat and uses it for quenching. He will heat the blade to cherry, lay it flat on the aluminum then clamp another piece of aluminum plate on top with C-jaw vise grips. He does not temper the blades but they will certainly hold an edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feukair Posted December 26, 2008 Author Share Posted December 26, 2008 Thanks for the comments everyone. The tang is heated into the handle. I have a drill chuck for my lathe so i can drill holes straight down the center. The tang of this knife is tapered like a rat tail tang. I drilled a hole through the center of the handle the length of the tang. The hole was only big enough for about 1/2 inch of the tang to go in before binding up. Then i heated the tang with a torch and pressed it into the handle burning it in. It's stuck in there pretty good, you can get the handle off if you need to by tapping it with a block of wood but it's bound pretty tight. I have never done one this way before but the process was explained to me in a conversation the instructor of a japanese smithing class i took. I believe it holds well by the same principles as a morse taper in a lathe. The spine is about 3/16" thick the whole length of the knife, i didn't taper the length but i think the next one i will a little because i understand that is a more proper shape. Here are a few more pictures, the rough handle after gluing the buffalo horn on, some carving of the inside of the scabbard, and a shot where i tried to make some of the hamon on this knife show up. It's very subtle,and i didnt polish it out, so it was difficult to catch a reflection of it in a shot. Thanks again everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalMuncher Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Thanks for the info Feukair, and once again, nice work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feukair Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Here's some more pictures. Delivered the knife to my friend today and had a little sushi party for lunch using the new knife. I'm not a big fan of sushi but i do try it a couple times a year or so, and what we made today was not the worst I've had. Anyways, heres some pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Great job! The best part of tool making is getting to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Feukair, good job on the knife, it looks beautiful, too bad it cracked...its happened to me before too, except the whole thing was just past non-magnetic all the same color, but i quenched in water... bad choice. good worktho. Quentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackKnives Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That is a BEAST. I love it. Just tagging along for the next build. You had mentioned adding a distal taper to the next blade, you will be shocked at how much more balance it gives longer blades when in the hand. Def a nice build all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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