Henry Lockley Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Hello Seeing as this is my first post, I'll introduce myself. I am a 17 year old interested in blacksmithing in the UK. I have started to get together a blacksmithing shop so I can make all sorts of items, hopefully axes as I collect them, knives don't really interest me much. Anyway, I've bought a press from a dispersal sale due to a blacksmith retiring and all items being auctioned off. In the corner of the room was this huge, beast of a press. I managed to get it for about £330 or around $430. I must admit at the time I thought it was a power hammer until buying it and actually reading the plate on the machine. My concern is if it's quick enough and powerful enough to forge with, to limit the amounts of heat my work needs. Hopefully you guys and gals can help me out and say if it's suitable. All I know about the press is it's main use was for a farmer who had his PTO shafts bent straight on it. My photos are hopefully good enough and I'm praying I got a good deal. And it weights a lot! Many thanks, Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 440 volts, 3 phase... Yikes! that's a hard to find in the states at a typical residential location. Plug it in (if you can) and play and see what you get. Ram travel speed plays a big part also if its single speed or 2 speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Lockley Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 Thanks, I've bought a single to three phase converter because we don't have 3 phase in our area. Currently I can't really do anything with it until I get space in my shed. Weighs a lot, a JCB load all had to pick it up. How much do you guys think it's worth? And is only 2HP enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Hi Henry which part of the uk are you in? im in northants and know a bit about presses. as the motor on that is only 2hp it will probably be a lot cheaper to replace the motor with a single phase one. what type of valve gear does it have, you can save lots of time on each stroke by setting the travel to the minimum for the job in hand a 2 speed going fast for 8" of wasted stroke then slows when it is in contact with the work as it switches to higher force will not be as fast as a single speed that starts 1/4" from the stock and does not slow down, my single speed is often used at more than one stroke per second and maybe over 10 seconds getting 12 to 15 strokes in when drawing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Lockley Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 Hello All I know of the press is what the spec plates say. I'm from Staffordshire. I have payed £150 on a converter which is 2HP like the motor. It's a Clarke converter. I didn't think that single phased motors would of fitted such an old machine. How much power will the 2HP provide in tonnage to the press if you could guess. From what I've read on forums people recommend a lot more than 2HP, will three phase make a difference. Thanks for the replies people it's much appreciated Regards Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 You can replace that motor with a modern 3HP 240v single phase and be well ahead. Your 3 phase converter will have power losses and suck up a lot more juice then necessary. Best thing is to go to a place where they repair or rewind motors if there is any left and buy a second hand one. I would take the old motor to them to see if they can match the bolt pattern and the pulley size. Note that your is 1400 rpm and not 2800. Best of luck and post your findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 remember not all 3 phase motors will run on your converter, most of the cheap converters will only run motors that can be connected delta, some of the more expensive ones can run them wired up for star and generally it is best to get a bigger converter than the motor ( also clarke is not a GOOD brand, they are the cheapest ones machine mart can get from china ) motor frame size is on the plate, this gives shaft size and mounting hole positions, it is an imperial size so you will have to do a little work to get a metric motor to fit but it is not hard you will need to get a flange mount 2hp 1400 rpm motor, change the coupling to one to fit the motor which should have a 24mm shaft and make a plate to go over the old mountings with new studs or threaded holes to match the new motor, if you are lucky you can just drill and tap new mounting holes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 It looks ok to me If you find its too slow in the future just replace the motor and pump with a higher pressure and flow unit, That frame looks like a good ridgid unit so the bones are good 2HP will probably be slow but it may generate a high tonnage Just remember to get speed and power req HP Cheers Beaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Lockley Posted August 26, 2017 Author Share Posted August 26, 2017 When the machine is fitted I will have to decide then if it's suitable. My primary concern is the 2HP motor. Does anyone think I could make money if I sold it, how much would a suitable motor cost? Thanks, Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Single phase is usually more expensive as there is more to a single phase motor than a three phase but with a bit of paitence and scrounging its suprising what turns up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 unless you can find someone who needs that exact motor it will be hard to sell, it was made in 1948 so will not be as standard and interchangable as modern motors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Lockley Posted August 26, 2017 Author Share Posted August 26, 2017 Could I make much if I sold the entire machine as is? Then bought a modern press with a single phase motor prefitted that is lighter and doesn't weigh a ton, literally. Thanks for the comments, keep em coming. Regards Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Henry, a press for forging is a project in progress. You will be making tools for it, modifying it and try to improve as you go. A change of motor is nothing and motors are relatively cheap in the overall context. You will need to see if the speed is enough, may be you want to change the pump ... Sure you can buy a ready made press, and ID is the man to talk to for that, he actually makes them in any size if you talk to him nicely It's your call. You can use it as it is, if your convertor works for that motor, change the motor or buy a new unit, or buy an old unit that works on single phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 how about one that is 30kg? yes it is 30.23kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Seriously, what would one of your small,presses cost to ship to the US? I'm in need! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Lockley Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 How do presses work with regards tooling? I know I'd have to make my own, same goes for my flypress. But does all the tooling bolt to the base or does the tooling change on the ram that comes down? Sorry I don't know the technical terms for presses I know nothing about them. Regards, Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 top tooling is like top tooling for a fly press, toolholder is 1" bore and 2" deep with a grub screw. bottom tool slides in and can be locked in place. for shipping it weighs 30kg aprox but would need packaging well and may have to go on a pallet so look up shipping costs for 50kg and 18" by 30" by 12" from england to the us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Lockley Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 Thanks for the insight. I had a Norton N4 given to me but the grub screw was stuck and someone cut the head of it off and ground it flat with the tooling still stuck inside. It was an absolute bugger to remove. I welded a huge bolt to the grub screw and it just snapped off. Ended up using an extractor kit and it took a wrecking bar and a pipe to get it off. Just need to get a replacement grub screw now but don't know where to get one as the thread is quite coarse. I'm very lucky as my brother is a mechanic so it was his welder and extractor kit. I can make all the tooling using his equipment, I'll just buy the steel. I also found inch thick steel plate which I can use to bolt tooling to and bolt that to the base. Thanks, Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 you should not have welded a bolt to it as the chances are that you also welded in part of the broken screw, place a suitable size nut over the old screw and weld that on inside then whilst it is still glowing use a spanner to gently turn it first one way then back, have removed thousands of screws from edwardian and victorian ironwork this way and get 98% out first time. also I can get any thread you need from specialists I deal with like left handed M7 fine with a choice of square, hex, socket, slotted, countersunk, raised and many more in ali, titanium, bronze, stainless and many more metals ( thread you were after was probably whitworth or UNC ) TPI and outer diameter is what you need to know, try your local power transmission place, they sell pulleys, v belts, sprockets, chain, bearings and lots more and should be able to identify it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Lockley Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 Sorry, I meant nut not bolt. I placed a nut over it and filled it full of weld. It still didn't work tho, the extractor kit shocked me as I was expecting it to break under the pressure from the wrecking bar. I will take the extracted bolt to the only place I know of that will measure and see what they can do. My hopes aren't high as I'm expecting it to be old and uncommon but that's how it goes. Also, the bolt is expanded due to the extractor going in. It looks like an NPT bolt now. The extractor is still stuck inside the bolt so that's gonna be fun getting out. How much do you charge for the 30kg press? It looks handy. Thanks Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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