coal

[brucerdn]

I just inherited about a 1000# of coal I was told that it was a low sulphur content and that it was rated at 9000 btu's not that I understand what exactly that means besides british thermal units, anyway I fired some up and it gets the steel a nice working color but I can't seem to get a welding tempature out of it. I guess my big ? is does it have enough btu's to do the job

Buck
If opportunity doesn't knock build a door

[irnsrgn]

bruce you didn't say where it came from, 9,000 btu's isn't much and it sounds like it is from a RR derailment, that stuff is junk to start with. the power plants, grind it into dust and mix with propane and air to get it to burn enough to generate steam for their purposes.

[brucerdn]

could be from anywhere the gentleman I got it from works for a coal company in Gillete wy. but the price was right(free) and I figured it wouldn't hurt to try. 2 things I've noticed about it 1. doesn't coke up and 2. it burns forever without any help

thanks Buck
If opportunity doesn't knock build a door

[irnsrgn]

http://www.iforgeiron.com/Blueprints/BP0051Good_Coal/BP0051Good_Coal.htm

http://www.iforgeiron.com/Blueprints01/BP0131coal/BP0131coal.shtml

[HWooldridge]

I was given some power plant coal and it was useless. Burned up quickly, didn't coke and would not get above a red color. The guy who gave it to me worked at the plant and said they crushed then injected it into their big burners. It flashed then dropped the clinker and ash thru the turbines to be reclaimed as road fill.

(I recall the stuff I got was 10-11,000 BTU and still wasn't worth beans...)

[Glenn]

9,000 BTU's is considered land fill in my location. Generally it is thought that blacksmithing coal needs to be 13,000 BTU or greater for the forge.

I was fortunate (ok it was free) to get some coal mined locally that was on its way to a power plant before the truck truned over. At the power plant, they pulverize this to dust and blow it into the furnace at the plant. It is a controlled explosion for lack of a better term and does burn.

If I run the stuff through a 3/4" opening screen the fines do well in the forge. The black things that look like rocks and shale can be used in the big forge with a lot of air and a lot of fuel being feed to the fire. The fire needs to be about 1/3 to 1/2 deeper than normal in size. Of course that means a whole lot of junk and it only makes a workable heat, but no where near forging heat as rocks don't burn well. The fines can be brought up to forging heat with increased air flow.

Compared to coal at 15,000 BTU's, the same set up will almost melt the fire pot.

Again, this is my set up and the sample of coal I have to work with here. Your mileage may vary.

[sqeezplay]

how much is coal? i've been using charcoal.. but never thought about using coal. i don't know a thing about it. how much would it cost to fire a forge for 2 hours? are there any toxins in the air when it's firing? i know there is a coal vein about 30 miles from my house. and a charcoal plant like 130 miles from my house.. so whats the best thing to do if you where me?

[dan@modernblacksmith]

gone

[Glenn]

Sqeez, go to the Blueprints > subject > forge > coal, and read the material there about coal. There are indeed stuff in there that are nasty. Look for the trace elements at the bottom of one of the pages for instance. Also look at how much of each nasty is in the coal in parts per million. One ppm fir instance is one pound of nasties in a million pounds of coal.

how much would it cost to fire a forge for 2 hours?

Depending on the forge, and how that forge is operated, a 5 gallon bucket will last a long while at a demo situation. But I have also seen a 5 gallon bucket of coal burned rather quickly in a large fire, being run hot, and under a production situation.

Coal only has so much heat per volumn (BTU's). The speed at which you require the heat depends on how long the fire burns. More heat means less time. Less heat means more time. But the heat is the same either way.

[Woody]

Old time blacksmiths did not have the advantage or ordering Pocohontas #3 coal, they made due with what was at hand or used charcoal if coal was unavailable. Before I knew the difference I used "useless coal" from the mines near Gillette, WY quite successfully. I managed to make several damascus blades with it. I found that it worked better if you mixed a bit of Anthricite coal with it. Anthricite is available at many coal suppliers in 40 lb bags as stove coal. As for mixing it with propane for use in power plants, that is not quite right. My Son in Law is an Environmentalist for a Power Plant inTexas and although he works at a gas fired plant now, he used to work at the Tolk Generating Station near Mule Shoe, TX. This was a coal fired plant. The coal was ground to a powder and fed directly into the boiler under air pressue. As for the BTU value, that is the amount of energy that is available in a given amount of product, in this case the amount of energy that is available in a pound of coal. It is no indication of how hot a fire the material will produce. The heat of the fire is dependent of the fuel, but it is also more dependent on the amount of air supplied to the fire. Pocohontas #3 has 13,500 BTU per lb. The coal mentioned has 9,000 BTU per lb which is consistent with the material that comes out of the Powder River Basin in Wyoming With a sufficient air blast it is not only capable of taking steel to the proper forging temperature, it is capable of burinig steel to a crips. I am not sure, but if you check the BTU Value of charcoal, I think it is probable equal to or less than the BTU Value of this coal and like charcoal, you will probably have to use more of this coal that coal of a highrer BTU value.

Woody

[ThomasPowers]

IIRC you used to be able to get good smithing coal from a depot in Brazil IN.

I've seen it sold at the IBA hammer-in in Tipton IN and of course SOFA sells good coal by the 50# container in Troy OH.

Coal is a bit trickier to learn to use but it can be very handy too for localized heating situations. Also a coal forge can generally handle very large pieces since the top is open unlike the contained propane forge.

Currently I have 3 gas forges and 2 coal ones each one is best for certain situations.

Thomas

[bruce wilcock]

if the coal is lifless and and you have a lot mix a small amount of anthracite with it ,if it burns with a lot of flame and no heat mix coke ,if it burns into soft white ash use it in the house fire ,and if it spits and crackels all the time even when its warmed up, make a road ,give it away ,just get shut of it ,

[J W Bennett]

As of last spring the depot in Brazil still sold it either by the bag or the pickup load. Alot cheaper by the pickup load. they will ship the bags anywhere. That is the majority of their business.

JWB

[ThomasPowers]

"Common charcoal has a heating value of 9700 Btu per pound while solid wood charcoal has a heating value of about 13000 Btu per pound." (Oak Ridge National Labs press release)

So since we don't want to use briquettes it looks like "real" charcoal is equivalent to Poco!

Of course a pound of charcoal takes up a lot more space than a pound of coal...

Thomas

[Rick Rowlands]

Isn't the coal in Gilette, WYoming lignite? It has a low btu content and is just one step above dirt.

Why not mix some coke in with your coal? We have 55 gallon drums of metallurgical coke for sale in Youngstown, OH for $50 each.

[Ten Hammers]

I have fits gettin good coal. Have used Illinois coal ( from City Coal ) a fair bit. 3-4 full 3# coffee cans of TACLUM fines per 50 # bag don't cut it for me. Fair bit of clinker too. Was paying 13-14 $ per 50# last I used ( year or so ago). I went back to Kimmels ( Pa. "Genuine Blacksmithing coal" on the bag). It has been hit and miss. Jens Butler ( Oakwood Forge ) stopped by the shop yesterday and suggested that some of the coal form these folks looked like Oil Shale. It sure is a mess to deal with and is more unpredictable than........well, 30+ years of marriage.....ANYWAY, this stuff is FAIR coal when it IS coal. 14$ current price for 50 #. I burn some charcoal ( commercial from Menards ). I'm gonna build a gasser ( yeah been saying that for years). Current rate ( and past while ) is 2 ton a year volume.

[yesteryearforge]

everywhere that I find decent coal either stops selling coal or goes under
used to get the same coal from the same place as williamsburg smiths but they stopped carring coal and now only sell fuel oil and pave driveways. williamsburg can afford to buy it by the train load but I cant
Last bought 9000 lbs about 4 months ago and since then that company quit selling coal.
looking to buy 5 tons pretty soon and stockpile my own source / that will give me about 8 tons on hand and I will try to reach and maintain a 10 ton supply.
With the oil situation perhaps more dealers will go back to suppling coal in small quantitys
There is lots of coal arround here it is just not readily available to the average joe on an as needed basis

[Ed Thomas]

yesteryear: Try Monger Coal & Oil in Elkton, VA. I connected Phil Rosche in Charleston SC with them and they delivered 20 tons to the guild down there a few years ago. Recently, the new art school there also got Monger to deliver a large truckload. Within Virginia, they will probably deliver a 5-ton load. I think my minimum is 3 tons but I'm in the same county as them. I have been happy with their coal for years. Ask for "pea coal" or better yet, "blacksmith" coal. They have become such a common source for blacksmiths that they know which stuff to send to you.

(540) 298-1256