nitro Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I was just wondering what the percent of carbon is in rail road spikes? Nitro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibble Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 40 point carbon steel. It's a medium carbon steel and it holds a decent edge, but is far from the best thing ever. I honestly love using them for blades (knives, tomahawks, etc...) but it won't hold an edge for as long as some other steels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitro Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 would it be better to weld a high carbon steel edge on them then. Nitro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibble Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 You could do that but it's not entirely necessary. Unless you're gonna be using these for endless hours of cutting stuff and carving then it really shouldn't be too much of a problem. You've just got to experiment and see what you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDW Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Just figured out how to link to photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDW Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 This one was hardened in salt water with a little dawn dishwashing liquid to break down the surface tension of the water. I think you can see where it is hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Ink Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 sweet knife LDW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Beuler Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Gee, I'm surprised a numbskull like me may actually have something to offer here, not yet touched upon. Look at the head of your railroad spikes, you will notice some embossed letters there, either one of two things will appear there. You will see H C or you will see M C. That does not stand for "Holy Cow!" or "Motorcycle Club." It is a differential designation displaying carbon content for the railroads. H C designates "High Carbon", M C designates "Medium Carbon". That much I know, for the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey likes to say on the radio... look to the guidance of the more experienced among us to chime in here with more detailed and enlightning input on the subject. Dan:) P.S. Now I think I'll start a new thread of my own on the subject as this reminds me of something from my childhood about railroad spikes, BIGGER SPIKES! I remeber seeing some several inches longer than the standard size... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibble Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Right, but the HC spikes are still only about 40 to 60 point carbon steel. Again not the best ever but it still can make a more than decent blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Nitro I dont know were you live exactly in Idaho but I live here to, there is a hammer in in Blanchard Idaho April 5th. Anyways Ive been makeing rrspike knives and hatchets for some time and MC spikes work really good and lot of it has a lot to do with the way you heat treat it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.V.Reeve Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 This one was hardened in salt water with a little dawn dishwashing liquid to break down the surface tension of the water. I think you can see where it is hard. LDW... Neat spike knife! I'm just getting started with RR spike knives and they're fun to do. I live right next to an old dead RR spur, so there's lots of "inventory" to be had... After you salt water harden, do you temper it back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDW Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I do not worry about tempering railroad spikes but I do normalize two or three times after forging. I had a cable knife crack yesterday and I think it may be because I did not temper it. It cracked when I etched it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Where did you get 40-60 point steel for a RR spike? The spec says the *max* is 30 points: American Railway Engineering Association's Specifications for Soft-Steel Track Spikes. Original document, 1926, revised last in 1968 Two classes of track spikes are given specifications, both low carbon and high carbon. Two sizes of track spike are identified, one of 5/8 inch square shaft and one of 9/16 inch. Page 5-2-1. "A low carbon track spike will not contain greater than 0.12% carbon nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-2. Section 6a. Bending properties: The body of a full size finished spike shall stand being bent cold through 180 degrees flat on itself without cracking on the outside portion of the bent portion. Page 5-2-2 Section 11. Marking. A letter or brand indicating the manufacturer shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added. Page 5-2-3: Specifications for high carbon steel track spikes 1968. Carbon not greater than 0.30%, nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-4. Section 6a. Bending properties: The body of a full size finished spike shall stand being bent cold through 120 degrees around a pin, the diameter of which is not greater than the thickness of the spike without cracking on the outside portion of the bent portion. Page 5-2-5 Section 11. Marking: A letter or brand indicating manufacturer and also the letters "HC" indicating high carbon, shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added." Additionally included in a fax to Mike Blue by the gentleman at Wellington industries, a division of Sheffield Steel: "Because of the bending tests required, the carbon content will not be greater than 0.30%. After all, brittle spikes would not be desirable as a track spike. Abent spike still holds the rail while a fractured spike would not. The consequences for the industry would be too great to consider. However, we refer to them as high carbon, they are not within the range of steels known as high carbon or hypereutectoid according to the steel industry standards, and have not been since at least 1926, when most track spikes were previously manufactured from wrought iron." Now the clips, officially called rail anchors, a fellow talked with the manufacturer an reported: 'From Matt B on Anvilfire 08/08/2007 12:10:21 EDT"The current standard for rail anchors is 1040-1060 steel, depending upon manufacturer."' Thomas---don't guess *research*! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibble Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 huh. i just did a general google search and used the average consensus of the hits that came up on the first page... i never really thought to look on anvilfire for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Why you need to see what the guesses are based on, (and why I posted where I got the info); the "average consensus of random people I meet" is that a blacksmith is a farrier and it's a dying craft. Don't think we would agree about that! It's like the alloy for jack hammer bits; the Machinery's hand book says that S series steel would be good for bits and that got posted on many a junkyard steel list; but we had a fellow on anvilfire who's career was repointing jackhammer bits and after more than 20 years of it (hundreds of thousands of bits!) he had never seen an S series steel bit; they were all medium carbon straight steels. S series would be good for bits---just too expensive for a consumable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 BP0011 Common Railroad Steels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dwyer Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 This one was hardened in salt water with a little dawn dishwashing liquid to break down the surface tension of the water. I think you can see where it is hard. Would you mind sharing a bit about how you forged this beauty? Looks like you drew out the spike somewhat for the handle. The twist is sweet, as is its recessed patina and polished highlights. Then there's the crisply well shaped blade with what looks like a couple of fullered transitions between handle and blade. Another nice touch. What did you profile and grind it with? It all adds up to a fine looking piece. Do you treat it with anything to hold the rust at bay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDW Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 That was a good observation Farmer Phil, indeed I do draw out the handle prior to hammering the lines prior to twisting. The transition from the handle to the blade was fullered on a treadle hammer. I have some one inch round stock as a top and bottom die to fuller with. I also use this to help draw the handle out, makes it easy not to destort the head of the spike. After twisting just knock the edges of the twist off on a belt sander. The blde was shaped on a 2 x 72" belt sander. Then hand sanded to 1000 grit sandpaper. Apply mothers car wax to help keep from rusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dwyer Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 The transition from the handle to the blade was fullered on a treadle hammer. I have some one inch round stock as a top and bottom die to fuller with. I also use this to help draw the handle out, makes it easy not to distort the head of the spike. What treadle hammer are you using? Did you put it together yourself? How much wallop do you get out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDW Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 In-line Clay Spencer style, Built at a MS Forge Council function, it has plenty of "wallup". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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