bengriswold Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I've got a bunch of rusty, handle-less pitchforks / hay forks lately as the tapered diameter of the tines seems about right for a couple projects I have in mind. I find these at used tool places, flea markets, etc. My question is this: How are these forged by regular folk w/o all that expensive machinery? I found one video on youtube that showed the process https://youtu.be/jY14Oi0i4gg?t=1m38s Clarington Forge ( I believe) uses to make them in a industrial production type setting. I found this fascinating as really am having a hard time imagining how the process would work by hand; especially with multi pronged forks of 5 or more. I will just make clear that this is not something I intend to tackle but rather a question or curiosity and love for the craft. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 There is a passage in Richardson's "Practical Blacksmithing" that discusses forging a garden rake with a similar process to what's shown in that video, just by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengriswold Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Thanks Jhcc. That's a useful link. I tried searching quite a bit for a video of someone doing this by hand but found nothing. I think it would be an interesting process to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On a small scale you could check out fork forging videos. I agree it would be interesting to watch. I might have to try it some time because to me that would be even more interesting then watching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 When I was in Germany I visited a water powered smithy that was now a museum and had a video of forging a hoe---from heavy sq stock (2" ?) using a board drop hammer and then powerhammers to stretch the sides out. Well worth a visit if you are over there. Der Historische Eisenhammer ECKERSMÜHLEN We sort of stumbled over it as we were driving and there was a large air hammer by the side of the road marking the entrance to the Museum. All water powered! (including the air hammers...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If you power an air hammer with water, does that make it a drowned hammer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 No it means you can use it to full effect when the electrical power is out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Air today, gone tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengriswold Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Daswulf said: On a small scale you could check out fork forging videos. I agree it would be interesting to watch. I might have to try it some time because to me that would be even more interesting then watching it. When you do try it tell us about it and better yet take a picture. Its interesting how they say in the video "the worker has to first shape a spider" This is obviously industry specific jargon I am pretty sure I remember reading a post on here where some was using these hay forks for to make actual forged arachnids... aka spiders =P 18 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: When I was in Germany I visited a water powered smithy that was now a museum and had a video of forging a hoe---from heavy sq stock (2" ?) using a board drop hammer and then powerhammers to stretch the sides out. Well worth a visit if you are over there. Der Historische Eisenhammer ECKERSMÜHLEN We sort of stumbled over it as we were driving and there was a large air hammer by the side of the road marking the entrance to the Museum. All water powered! (including the air hammers...) Very cool. There are a few places in Europe like this i want to visit and this sounds like it should be added to the list. I want to visit the Rivierre Nail factory in France. Great article on them here: http://www.core77.com/posts/53466/Why-You-Should-Use-Nails-Not-Screws-Also-Why-is-This-Nail-Factory-Covered-in-Vegetable-Oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 The "vegetable oil because upholsters carry nails in their mouths" story in that link reminded me of the time I visited an old-school upholstery factory and met the senior upholsterer who still would "spit tacks" when nailing up a seat suspension. He would literally fill his mouth full of nails, maneuver each one to the front with his tongue (nail head out), grab it with a magnetic tack hammer, and whack it into place. He worked really fast, but he was missing a few teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, bengriswold said: When you do try it tell us about it and better yet take a picture. Its interesting how they say in the video "the worker has to first shape a spider" This is obviously industry specific jargon I am pretty sure I remember reading a post on here where some was using these hay forks for to make actual forged arachnids... aka spiders =P Great! Now I'll be butchering pitchforks to make spiders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 13 hours ago, bengriswold said: I've got a bunch of rusty, handle-less pitchforks / hay forks lately as the tapered diameter of the tines seems about right for a couple projects I have in mind. I find these at used tool places, flea markets, etc. My question is this: How are these forged by regular folk w/o all that expensive machinery? I found one video on youtube that showed the process https://youtu.be/jY14Oi0i4gg?t=1m38s Clarington Forge ( I believe) uses to make them in a industrial production type setting. I found this fascinating as really am having a hard time imagining how the process would work by hand; especially with multi pronged forks of 5 or more. I will just make clear that this is not something I intend to tackle but rather a question or curiosity and love for the craft. Thanks, Many years ago I was tasked by the National Trust to make a cob fork in the traditional way, and also as part of my apprenticeship I had been on a production forging line making various forks with multiple tines on machinery similar to that being used in the video. the "Spider" would refer to the initial blank, the video is appears to be a little misleading as the fork being stamped out, and then drawn and sheared for the socket is not the same item as the later one being manipulated in the forks, that manipulation is similar to how I made the cob fork, each tine drawn out, the socket being the last piece to do, trimming was with a hot cut , and not sheared as in video (this was a one off after all) The basic blank shape (spider) is stamped out at 0.40 'ish, and the first blank can be seen resting in the base of the die., the blank is then reversed and another spider stamped out, at 0.52 you can see the finished fork shape ready for final working, mainly on the socket for the handle By stamping them out in this configuration, it is the most economical way of producing them in terms of labour time to finish matched to a small wastage allowance The difference between hand making and the production method show is the basic shape of the "spider" For my cob fork, a similar shape being hot cut in from a piece of leaf spring material 1/2" thick and 3" wide was used, Some 1/2" holes punched through at strategic points (5 in all, 3 for the four tines/prongs, and two to isolate the handle socket to be section) these were then split using a hot cut, leaving a blank (imagine a four fingered hand, no thumb, on a wrist (see around 2.50 -2.51) similar to the one you can see that has had already been manipulated ready for the drawing down of the tines (see around 1.46), the outer sections being slightly widerr than the inner sections as they are needed to be longer than the two central tines when finish drawn to length More tines required, more "fingers" on the blank. Then it was basic hammer work on anvil and stakes to draw out the tines, (We did have a striker involved here as no power hammers were available.) From the 1.40 to 2.45 frame you will see the method for a hand forged fork,(but using rollers to draw the tines as opposed to on the anvil) Not shown is that some work has already been done to allow access to the parts to be forged individually, "Finger sections" are bent out of the way to allow the tines to be worked on first, 2.50 to 2.51 gives a good idea of pre and post blank profiles. Tines then positioned in place, and the socket section drawn/spread, trimmed to shape and formed into a socket ready for final setting of shape.required. Sounds and is easy, but hard work getting there without the power hammer. Hope this has helped, If you have some spare forks, the tines can make good scrolling tongs, handle part is already drawn down, only need the top (thicker) end tapered for the jaw section, and a set hammer to indent the hinge area, slit and drift for rivet, and rivet together. Voila ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengriswold Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 On 3/2/2017 at 1:35 PM, JHCC said: The "vegetable oil because upholsters carry nails in their mouths" story in that link reminded me of the time I visited an old-school upholstery factory and met the senior upholsterer who still would "spit tacks" when nailing up a seat suspension. He would literally fill his mouth full of nails, maneuver each one to the front with his tongue (nail head out), grab it with a magnetic tack hammer, and whack it into place. He worked really fast, but he was missing a few teeth. Cool Story. Watching people who are masters in their craft is really a joy. On 3/2/2017 at 11:34 PM, John B said: The difference between hand making and the production method show is the basic shape of the "spider" For my cob fork, a similar shape being hot cut in from a piece of leaf spring material 1/2" thick and 3" wide was used, Some 1/2" holes punched through at strategic points (5 in all, 3 for the four tines/prongs, and two to isolate the handle socket to be section) these were then split using a hot cut, leaving a blank (imagine a four fingered hand, no thumb, on a wrist (see around 2.50 -2.51) similar to the one you can see that has had already been manipulated ready for the drawing down of the tines (see around 1.46), the outer sections being slightly widerr than the inner sections as they are needed to be longer than the two central tines when finish drawn to length More tines required, more "fingers" on the blank. Then it was basic hammer work on anvil and stakes to draw out the tines, (We did have a striker involved here as no power hammers were available.) From the 1.40 to 2.45 frame you will see the method for a hand forged fork,(but using rollers to draw the tines as opposed to on the anvil) Not shown is that some work has already been done to allow access to the parts to be forged individually, "Finger sections" are bent out of the way to allow the tines to be worked on first, 2.50 to 2.51 gives a good idea of pre and post blank profiles. Tines then positioned in place, and the socket section drawn/spread, trimmed to shape and formed into a socket ready for final setting of shape.required. Sounds and is easy, but hard work getting there without the power hammer. Hope this has helped, If you have some spare forks, the tines can make good scrolling tongs, handle part is already drawn down, only need the top (thicker) end tapered for the jaw section, and a set hammer to indent the hinge area, slit and drift for rivet, and rivet together. Voila ! Sorry I did not see this earlier John but I wanted to be sure to thank you for taking the time to explain this. Very interesting. referring back to the video helped me to understand your explanations much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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